NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

I wonder if the inevitable Netflix series about this will replicate the wait times between the tribunal dates and make everyone wait months for the next episode.

One thing I will say about this Tribunal, it has never been boring!

Well doesn’t she sound like a knob.

'Your daughter is gay and is therefore part of the LGBQT community and I wonder how she feels seeing her mum make such an issue about all this.'

'All this' = being expected to change out of period-stained clothes in front of a man when she's entitled to a female-only changing room at work, and being smeared as a danger to patients because of that. How dare she take issue with that, the horror!

They really did expect her to just put up and shut up to keep the man happy, bunch of pricks.

Ohhhh NC wants to get Sandie back in the chair

OMG
We knew though
Would live to see JR's and Upton's faces right now

iff position. I/w note for both wits would have been in bundle, and the additional docs now would have already been in the bundle, pages 1705-1712, messages from Benidorm Party Chat (?), text messages, the C would have been able to give evidence in chief on those and x'd

SP's witness's have come forward very late as the climate of fear made it difficult to say anything.

From TT

Judge and Panel arrived. We begin.
JR speaking - cannot hear.
JR - we have a couple of matters, there's a proposed short written intervention from <missed> we'd like to include.
JR - heard from C last night, 2 new witnesses who came forward over the w/end, we object in principle. Want to know what they have to say, very late.
JR - 3,000 new pages, it seems unreasonable given that subs start tomorrow.
JR - 4th, discussing availability for subs some time in August and travel arrangements for Thursday.
NC - arguing in favour of adding further witnesses, thats what JR said about LN, FW today when added at late date. Tribunal has been reluctant to curtail Rs activity to defend action. Rs have been shambolic in how they conducted, the need for FW, LN should have been easy for Rs to anticipate, it should not have been diff for them to expect her to dispute.

It can some as no surprise that SP denies she is racist.

Fifer : stick that in yer pipe and smoke it pal

If Rs had proceeded, they would have i/w FW in relation to Xmas eve incident. They could have i/w her in that i/x. That should have lead them to LN, and we would have been in a very diff position. I/w note for both wits would have been in bundle, and the additional docs now would have already been in the bundle, pages 1705-1712, messages from Benidorm Party Chat (?), text messages, the C would have been able to give evidence in chief on those and x'd

Fifer : oft. Ah hink JR is gettin a skuddit lug here aka a Fife FAFO.

"Climate of fear at NHS Fife" says NC explaining witnesses late in coming forward.

It annoys me a lot. DSDs are both quite rare, and normally detected either at birth or at puberty. The idea that someone could reach 29, or whatever age Bumba is, and have an undiagnosed DSD is very unlikely.

I blame Laurie Penny for getting this trend going. A few years ago she was speculating on TwiX that she thought she might have Turner syndrome. Again, Laurie is well into her thirties and exceedingly unlikely to have an undiagnosed case of Turner syndrome. I thought that was distasteful even for her.

It seems to be a narrative going that (a) undiagnosed DSDs are so common that anyone could have them, (b) DSDs are "intersex" in the sense of being neither one thing nor the other, (c) this makes biological sex so incredibly complicated that nobody can tell what sex anyone is without a cheek swab, and (d) it's safer just to go with self-declared gender identity because pronouns are simpler to understand than chromosomes.

And also, the implication that trans and DSD are sort of the same thing, in a way that nobody ever explains.

This is clearly all bollocks, but it's become very popular with the activist class, and we can see lots of progressive professionals have absorbed bits of the narrative without necessarily understanding what they're supposed to be arguing.

And sounds like our our Lindsay and Fiona is going to be good for Sandie.

Flipping heck what a plot twist these new submissions...

I have developed a huge crush on NC. And @BezMillsfor his wonderful commentary! And on everyone in these wonderful threads tbh. I have derived such immense joy from being part of the truly amazing camaraderie and humour here. I have cancelled loads of meetings & pretty much gone awol from all responsibilities while this has been in progress.

My cat is seriously annoyed with the Fifer because of the number of times he caused me to accidentally spray coffee all over her. The Fifer’s meltdown over the Fife IT guy’s evidence resulted in an urgent message to my personal trainer to incorporate pelvic floor exercises into my workout routines. Someone needs to collate the Fifer’s contributions into a Substack or something for posterity.

"Would welcome recommendations, particularly anything that would work on audible as a first for 11 yr old (we have a long car journey soon)"

A good starting point for any young person would be the books featuring Tiffany Aching. This series of his starts with "The Wee Free Men" and then Hat Full of Sky, Wintersmith, I Shall Wear Midnight and The Shepherd's Crown.

Another alternative might be The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents.

These are books that are specifically aimed at children.

From TT

NC cont... by JR. We wait to hear what FW, LN have to say. It is clear that we will need to recall C to put points to her that were not put in Feb. And call 2 wits who came forward very late, they were reluctant to come forward because of climate of fear in NHS Fife.

J - relevance

Fifer : very fuckin relevant m'laird yer honour big man ken.

Benidorm Party Chat, OMG

by JR. We wait to hear what FW, LN have to say. It is clear that we will need to recall C to put points to her that were not put in Feb. And call 2 wits who came forward very late, they were reluctant to come forward because of climate of fear in NHS Fife.
J - relevance

So the tide is turning and now they are lining up at NHS Fife to kick the boot in and throw anyone who backed the persecution of Sandie under the bus?

Good times!

I'm now thinking of the titles of some of my strangely named chats being read out in court...

One of the new witnesses is from the group chat 😱 With new evidence from the group chat.

NC - JR has made much of fact that SP was only woman to object, that is not so, J - how long to take, recall, 2 wits NC - recall will be in JRs hands, perhaps 1/2 hour in chief, 2 other witnesses combined an hour in chief,
J - are they available
NC - yes, one attend by CVP

That's putting it up to his judgeship!

Oh wait hang on..the new witnesses would speak to (against?) Lindsays credibility. I need more coffee!

Could it be a couple of other nurses have come forward to say they too felt uncomfortable, or had made a complaint, about DU in the changing room?

NC still talking to judge re what to do. Judge asking questions

And it's going to be adjourned ..won't finish this week... Possibly till December!!