NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I've seen the comments about Cherry being trans before and found it a bit baffling. I get your point about people reading into things different ways but it always seemed clear to me that it wasn't about females transitioning from being males but about female dwarves challenging the idea of male as default (along the lines of Invisible Women) There's a quote somewhere in one of the Guards books along the lines of 'dwarves knew there were female dwarves, they had mothers after all, but as long as they weren't too explicit about it'.

Same with Monsterous Regiment. I've seen the women in that described as trans, when they were women forced to imitate men in order to escape variously sexual abuse, a way out of a limiting life, to be able to follow their lover into the army, a way to find a brother etc etc. But these women never thought they were men. As Jackrum says "Upon my oath I am not a shouty/swearing/violent man."

Never too late for either!

@pollyglot Oooh, they look amazing! I've made marmalade a couple of times but it's such a lot of bloody chopping! I've not made fig jam but it's on my "to try" list - I have Kylie Newton's fig and orange jam recipe.

For those wanting ideas for raspberries, KN also has a raspberry and chocolate preserve recipe. Failing that, make raspberry jam and spread thickly with Nutella on something carby and toasted. Thank me later.

"Which the brings me on to Dr Update's angels, who swept to his side to defend and protect him (anyone remember that awful dance performance with the beatific trans figure protected by a troop of self sacrificing pawns?)."

@FlirtsWithRhinos

I read that as self sacrificing prawns!!!!!!

😂 !!...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😏

Agree about Vorbis. Chill down spine scary.

No, not at all! Get stuck in, you'll not regret it.

Pratchett: start with the Witches series, the first one is Equal Rites. Austen: start with Pride and Prejudice.

I think Small Gods is one of the most insightful books on religion I’ve read.

Raspberry and redcurrant jam (equal quantities of each) is superb. I roughly follow Delia’s bramble jelly technique.

Surely it's never too late for Austen!
( I will never forgive Cassandra for destroying her letters)
Also a Dorothy L Sayers fan.

I’d recommend starting reading JA with Northanger Abbey. Funny and wholly delightful.

And not just religion.

Two of the major powers of Discworld witches are First Sight (seeing what is really there, rather than what you want or expect to see) and Second Thoughts (thinking about what you are thinking). The basis of a firm grounding in reality.

And can you imagine asking Nanny Ogg - a few drinks in - how to tell whether someone is male or female?

Maya has just posted that the Times as done some journalism re bundle and which includes stuff about Jamie Doyle. Will have to wait til tomorrow to buy as I don’t subscribe but for those of you who do link below. Twitterers are wondering why he wasn’t called but that would be I think cos his testimony would be damaging — but then I think but all the testimony was damaging so why did he get off having to face NC.

https://x.com/mforstater/status/1949208268615913902?s=46&t=OcVj6Ek4vpx69DdiZCpI2g

100% with Sandie, who cares what goes on in anyone else's bedroom, trans people in the opposite sex facilities is wrong totally wrong.

I read Pride and Prejudice for the first time as an adult and it was so much better than if I read as a teenager.

I didn't mean to imply Cheery was transgender. Certainly not, she always knew she was a female dwarf.

Definitely some of that going on too 😆

Lindsay is a toad.

Nanny Ogg could definitely tell us the sex of a baby, and rather a lot more, here is the section where they are discussing what gift to bestow on a newborn:

An elderly/ retired midwife with a few glasses of wine in her is exactly what this tribunal needs tbh to explain the basics.

The graphic novel of Mort helped me learn English.🙂Oddly I read the graphic novel, then the play adaption and tackled the book after, moving on to the other Death centred ones.

I have never met anyone else who had Mort as their first introduction.

I made some jam, some chutney and washed all the bedding, hung out and dried (4 beds! Including mattress protectors and the quilts)

Oh, I have met a few people who said Mort was their gateway drug as it were.

I began with Mort. It's a decent starting point.

But for the current situation I agree with PP that Small Gods is probably the most relevant - with Carpe Jugulum and Lords and Ladies to explain the glamour cast over allies.

I've only read a few Pratchett, to the kid - it's definitely not too late! I think I needed to come to him later to appreciate the parallels with real life better.

I really want to read Mort next, I read the Tiff Aching ones first though.