NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Someone online said that it was acknowledged at the tribunal that he had declined to appear to give evidence.

If that's the case I believe that his email can be referred to in court and the panel have to accept NC's interpretation of it unchallenged.

I've finally caught up!! My jaw hurts from where it's been hanging open, and frankly im just horrified at the penalty of everyone appearing for NHSF. The restraint shown by that IT fellow when JR accused him of being dodgy was astounding. I'm glad that Sandy is getting justice, but I cannot believe how badly the trust have handled this.

To be honest I think it’s more the case that KS misrepresented events to him and he undoubtedly believed them without hesitation. He did acknowledge SO wasn’t asked for her side, so I reckon he would have just thrown KA under the bus and said he wasn’t aware of full facts but would have supported the outcome regardless

As often in sci fi Terry Pratchett had a great grasp of the difference between sex and gender,

i.e "All dwarfs have beards and wear up to twelve layers of clothing. Gender is more or less optional" This makes dwarf dating rather tricky.

Hilariously some of the "modern" female dwarves when they move to the big city start wearing lipstick and dresses.

Good grief indeed. As others have said, these are people who, through the course of their daily work, must encounter all manner of challenging situations, and yet they can barely cope with the idea that someone might point out that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. It's beyond ridicule.

The snippets from the bundle we get are very illuminating and help make sense of issues.

I don't think so. Lindsay says months after the event that she doesn't know Beth.

Yes definitely! Ones like these also make me feel so sad for how long Sandie must have felt so alone with this.

I know, I was being slightly facetious as to why he wasn't used as a witness by NHS Fife.

Presumably his evidence would have been even more damning than Searles and Bumbas

Just adding myself to the list of Terry Pratchett fans. I got into his work when I was casually browsing in W H Smiths and picked up a copy of Eric. I read:

"Oh yes. But that wasn't what he was after. He was trying to conjure up a succubus." It should be impossible to leer when all you've got is a beak, but the parrot managed it. "That's a female demon what comes in the night and makes mad passionate wassn--"

"I've heard of them," said Rincewind. "Bloody dangerous things."

The parrot put its head on one side. "It never worked. All he ever got was a neuralger."

"What's that?"

"It's a demon that comes and has a headache at you."

Then I flipped forward a few pages and found him talking about Amazonian princesses capturing male explorers for specifically masculine duties, saying the luckless victims do not last long, "because wiring plugs, putting up shelves, sorting out the funny noises in attics and mowing lawns can eventually reduce even the strongest constitution."

I bought it and read it. I was hooked and now have a complete set of everything he ever published.

Marmalade.

The Times article does make me wonder if NHS Fife always take one side of any dispute - the weepiest?! 💦💦💦

R.e. the nurses let's see if any of them can confirm if Upton actually saw Sandie for a second time in the changing room between Christmas and New year. And ran out in his socks as claimed. Surely someone saw this?!

I wonder if you spend a lot of mental effort denying your biological sex for womanly feels your general grasp on what is real and what is your internal emotion diminishes.

Where's that from? I've missed something.

In these proceedings i am sooooo sick of reading the fawning testaments of the “hang maidens” that I want to scream.

Mostly middle class twits.

I thought the Lindsay you referred to was the one in the Times article. There is a screenshot of a FB group conversation where she says she doesn't know Beth but feels uncomfortable with the convo.

I'm getting confused with various first names, and am not sure if for example Jamie or Lindsay are male or female, or may be subject to change at some point. (Maybe a sign of my age, and may be irrelevant.)

I make bread, cakes, chutney, jam , wine, cordials, cider and apple juice.

I love Terry Pratchett,.

I crochet and knit and sew.

I keep chickens and grow veg.

I'm also a retired Engineer.

I think it's interesting how so many of us share similar interests!

Be interesting to know who took the FB conversation screenshot.

[eta sorry for the confusion, yes, she says that in the chat] Yes, that's the one, but why does that mean it can't be she who is being called? Not all the witnesses have to know Beth. Maybe JR is calling her to get her to say that SP is well known for her bigoted ideas, or who knows... It may not be, of course, especially given the spelling issue - it's a pretty common name in these parts.

Could be that Sandie was required to produce the fb chat. Assuming that's what it is (eta oh, Sandie says it is) - the Times headline refers to WhatsApps but there's no mention of WhatsApps in the article and in fact I don't think there's been a single one in these proceedings, has there?

I thought Sandie's response to Lindsay expressing her concerns (as she had every right to do) was mature and reasonable.

Going back a bit… another Pratchett and Heyer fan here, and I make jam (but not bread). Any other Jodi Taylor fans here? If you haven’t read her Chronicles of St Mary’s series, you should treat yourselves. First one is called Just One Damned Thing After Another. St Mary’s is an offshoot of the University of Thirsk and they study history in contemporary time.

IF there was any digital manipulation involved it MIGHT have been done using another program. If there had been any differences in screen brightness when the SS was taken there could be subtle difference. It would depend on the skill of the person doing the export/import/edit to iron those out - or even notice them.

There were 13 of them in our smallish school at one point (mostly but not all female).

Jamie male, Lindsay female, I think.