NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I've just looked that storyline up - never seen Waterloo Road - and it's made me feel a bit sick.

I managed to see some of Upton's appearance at the tribunal. He came across as very pleased with himself for having all his answers ready.

Im assuming these last few witnesses are DUs?
The 2 A&E nurses on Monday could be going to comment around Sandie’s use of the changing room and avoiding DU. One of them was present in CR just before the Christmas Eve incident. Or will they continue the rumours of racism, homophobia etc about Sandie?
I feel they can’t have anything useful to DU to add to the CR incident as NHS Fife have already cleared Sandie of bullying and misgendering so there is presumably no evidence of this?

I saw it too, and the endless arguing the toss over every single point was insane. And the smirk practically radiated off him; the smirk of someone who knew their defence was watertight because they'd got solid evidence against that nasty woman who needed to be taught a lesson and who'd dared drag him here and waste his time.

What a shame that evidence is looking a bit shonky these days...

The two witnesses on Monday will be jolly good fodder for NC i am predicting.

The Info Security guy Donaldson wasn't even the one who collated it! I think it came as a surprise reveal in court that Donaldson wrote the report but Upton populated the form with copies of his 'screenshots' and the Health Board added Upton's appendix to Donaldson's report without specifying that Upton alone created the appendix.

Just caught up after having to go out yesterday. Friends annoyingly treated me to lunch...so had to get dressed and socialise! Actually fuming that couldn't scroll these threads on Mumsnet!

I'd be rubbish as an expert witness. I love a well-placed exclamation mark!

The Fife witnesses remain me so much of the fawning and elevation of A. Challenor/Aimee Kmight. Despite all evidence pointing to someone who didn't understanding safe-guarding, lacked insight into anything and no capacity to have any empathy or to understand anyone with a different opinion. They were promoted and protected by policitcal parties, council officials, tech companies purely because of their 'trans' status. I hope the Fife witnesses will now reflect on how much their professionalism and judgement has been destroyed by protecting a medicore, yet dangerous man.

To be fair (it hurts!) I think telling the nurses a TIM was coming in WOULD have been trouble as it would count as sharing medical details.

Dear God. The name of the crowdfunder. I won't link because I know we are not allowed- and I will be cautious about using it's title in case that's not allowed also... but it's pathetic.

I hope the Fife witnesses will now reflect on how much their professionalism and judgement has been destroyed by protecting a medicore man.

I think there's more chance of Upton having a period. This is entirely ego driven, as a PP said a while ago, all they know is that they're right, amd everything else has to bend to that. It's about being right, not doing right, if that makes sense. A person driven by wanting to do right is open to the possibility that they might be wrong, because it's about something external to them and they are concerned about doing the right thing. A person driven by wanting to BE right can't really admit they were wrong because then they wouldn't BE right, and it's all internal, self image that must be preserved at all costs. Parallel to Upton's feminine identity.

the failure to consult nursing staff (or even alert them!) that a TIM would be using the CR

I think Fife might genuinely have been in a bind there, as they would have been revealing his private information (not that I can currently find the reliable docs on whether this is legal).

On the subject of Pratchett (or should that be re: Pratchett😃) many years ago I read a Pratchett book, and hated it so much I didn’t go near that author for many years until I bought one if his books to complete a three for two offer. And I loved the book so much I devoured everything he’d ever written like a drowning man reaching the surface. But as I started to run out of books I realised I was going to have to read the book I hated so much, but when I did - it wasn’t the book I remembered at all!

j don’t know what I read all those years ago, but it wasn’t Pratchett or why I thought it was

Hmm, I thought the crowdfunder was funding counselling, loss of earnings for his wife,... - I thought it would be BU getting the counselling. Is there a reliable source for it being his wife getting it? I rather doubt he'd be up for that myself - it might accidentally be competent!

They surely could have consulted them on the principle without mentioning any specific individual.

It would help if they actually had a policy, of course.

I also wonder if DU recycled some notes that he had kept on other people at a previous hospital.

Some of the early notes were very vague along the lines of "didn't smile at me" or "gave me a look that I interpreted as hostile"

IIRC on one of the notes SP's name had been added retrospectively.

I looked it up 🤢

I'm not too sure about that. They certainly couldn't tell staff if Upton either did or did not have a GRC. But other than that I don't see what would stop them informing staff that a transwoman was going to be starting work there shortly.

Yes, absolutely this. They needed to consult all relevant parts of the workforce in the course of developing a policy about changing room use.

And what I have heard in the tribunal about admitting people to the changing rooms on a 'case by case basis' seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the Equality Act - one which seems to invite an overly personalised decision that in itself threatens individuals' privacy.

Fife staff (Searle i think??) seemed to think that 'case by case' means that they had to decide for each individual trans person whether they would be admitted to their preferred space. In fact, 'case by case' means that a given situation has to be assessed in order to determine a policy that will then apply to everyone. Eg, a changing room where people undress might be treated differently from one in which they just have to , I dunno, take their hats off.

I think this is a distinct possibility. This isn’t his first rodeo of keeping notes on people who don’t dawn all over him.

You are right they couldn’t identify him. However if they had done a proper equality impact assessment, which would demonstrate the impact on women, it is likely they should have consulted the unions and come up with an agreed form of words

@Greenfriedtomato Of course, I wouldn't tell anyone who wanted to sign up to a free digital library service to pick a local address from Google maps/a local directory etc.....(empty business addresses?) and how useful it can be for pre-reading books that are released in other countries before the U.K.....

As Granny Weatherwax would say......I can't be having with that! And I'm sure Nanny Ogg wouldn't be interested in some of the more......eeeerrrrr explicit verses of A Wizard's Staff has a Knob on the End.....

PS I promise I buy books as I can't be doing with reading anything much on a screen. Love the excitement of a new hardback being released and reading it the old-fashioned way!

I remember this and am pretty sure Upton said they were dividing the funds into roughly two parts. One to cover expenses that included his wife's loss of earnings during tribunal, travel and accomodation for tribunal, and counselling for himself. The rest would be divided between some good causes.

TBF people gave to provide 'treats' as they did with crowdfunder for SP, and whatever choices the recipients made, the intention was for them to benefit personally, so I don't think badly of the Uptons for using some for themselves.

If his wife needs or wants counselling I hope very much that she can access it and make independent choices about what she wants and needs, without Dr Upton's input.

I am quite concerned that since Dr U has now been utterly exposed over the non-contemporaneous notes, his one last defence may be to implicate the only other person who is known to have helped with his emails and records. If so I hope she has the resources to look after her own interests.

The difference with the two crowdfunders is that Sandie gave all the funds raised to charity.

Maybe Upton donated all his money too and didn't spend it on threats. Maybe...