NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Also knitting.

The Bluestocking is a hotbed of gin-drinking, word play and knitting.
And a bit of crochet.

The level of condescension shown by Dr Upton towards the whole Tribunal process had to be seen to be believed. The tone behind the contemporaneous comments stuck out, but also at one point one of the comments about A and E being a fast paced environment adding 'not like here' or something to that effect. The arguing over every point imaginable even straightforward questions, trying to demonstrate how amazingly clever he was and how superior to everyone in that room including the fabulous Naomi was appalling. You'd hope that his family would, when they were sat in the wall of sad, have thought, "What on earth have we done here to create this behaviour?" (Once you've been in a relationship with someone who has those types of manipulative qualities as some of us have, you can see it when someone else is behaving in that way) That evidence appears to have been just one of the many elements in this he's tried to manipulate and control isn't a surprise, and ultimately appears to be critical in his undoing.

Very much missing the laugh reaction here 🤣

There was an interesting discourse about the possible uses of the Halfords metal gauze on X; used by those who enjoy smoking a bit of cannabis leaf I understand!

Many other libraries offer similiar for their users, if interested start searching with sthing like 'local library online digital content accounts' for your area.

7minutes between @ickky s request for some poetry and you posting this

I’m In awe

Totally! If this hearsay interaction actually happened, it would have been Dr Upton's responsibility to model for the student, as far as he could, how to show professionalism when spoken to by a patient in a manner that might be considered disrespectful. What was the student supposed to do, rip into the patient on his behalf? Take the initiative in ending the consultation and give him a cup of sweet tea and a box of hankies and a cuddle?

<<blows smoke off the top of a smartphone and returns it to holster>>

But bear in mind half the lyrics are the original ones and the rhyme for "easy" wasn't difficult given the context.

I think in most situations they would be right to think that an employment tribunal wouldn't have the resources to investigate - but am I right in thinking that this is evidence submitted since February?

I cannot understand why NHS Fife didn’t concede liability & end this case when the IT forensic consultant’s report was submitted as evidence. NHSF will have had this report for months. Surely they understand how damning it is? As well as the shambolic investigations of SP, the failure to consult nursing staff (or even alert them!) that a TIM would be using the CR, etc etc etc. NHSF must surely understand they have no hope of successfully defending this case. They could have saved themselves so much negative publicity by conceding liability. Why have they continued to fight this case?

AIUI they had screenshots. the colours of the area containing the dodgy dates didn't seem to match the colours in the rest of the shot - so......🤷🏼‍♀️

As well as jam-making, plus bread and the odd cake, I'm also a knitter and a bit of a family history addict.

Can they do that without the agreement of Dr U? Would they have to go through a process to formerly sever the cases?

I don't even know how you'd do that on purpose. If you're screenshotting (screenshooting?) on the same device, wouldn't it all be the same colour, resolution etc?

and humble too !!

<doffs cap in more awe>

JR is a Squib if i ever encountered one!

Thing is it he was using it for cannabis he would just order them on Amazon like a normal person surely?

https://amzn.eu/d/16aTrYZ

Tell her that the coverage in England has been shit. The Guardian and Independent are too scared/captured to say anything, the bbc is pants, and occasionally there is something in the Times and Telegraph. We need the Scottish press.

and thank god for Tribunal Tweets.

imagine if this had all been heard in secret …

As they say, only 10% of language is the words, and the rest is body language, tone, inflection, enunciation etc. I do wish there was somewhere I could watch the tribunal other than on a live feed. It’s not possible to get such a feel for it when you’re only following TT and mumsnet.

Yes, I've just gone back and checked the transcript

NC - will put it, DU is obviously a man
KS - no
NC - under oath, credibility important, saying you woundn't know DU was a TW unless told?
KS - wouldn't have known what sex DU assigned at birth

It's just a slippery evasive way of answering the question. Instead of being honest and saying yes, it was clear he was a biological male (and she didn't need to be told), she waffled about not know what sex he was assigned.

No one can possibly know what sex someone is 'assigned' at birth as they may be one of the rare individuals that have a dsd, or are victim of an admin error.

But the question was would she know he was a TW unless told otherwise. Her honest answer would have been yes because he does not pass at all- and she avoided answering.

ETA it might have been glancey that said she would never have known. I've lost track of all the liars in this case.

A couple of years ago, i was bitten on my foot by a false widow spider.

The way it looked was…unpleasant.
I didn’t feel the bite, but the aftermath was bloody awful.

Remember the callous Waterloo Road story about Lois and the dying grandmother who had dementia?

That story feels like that.

I hope whoever passed on the story to SP exaggerated that account because, otherwise, it’s wretched.

Maybe the different lighting makes a slight difference? My screen auto adjusts for lighting. Two screenshots of the same thing could differ subtly as a result.

I was watching back then. It made me realise he was getting a thrill out of it. The whole thing gave him a buzz.

There’s another person showing similar tendencies around here at the moment.