NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

The protected characteristic is gender reassignment. Gender and gender identity are not PCs.

As for the GRC, proposing to undergo GR is protected, and you can’t get a GRC until you’ve “lived as the opposite sex” for two years. This has muddied the waters.

I imagine they're trying to argue that suspending Sandie and not Dr Upton was neutral because changing the nurses rota was much easier than the doctors?

moved on to
JR U said a concern re being on the same shifts. Why
MC DU was v distressed and had been another diff interaction. SP works fixed night shifts which means the point of concern is begin/end of shift. Overlap between staff meant the day before and after wld be difficult for DU

Precisely, I was almost screaming 'We all have protected characteristics you numpty' as I read this. Why are almost all the people involved just so stupid?

Who wrote the note about the referral to the NMC?

Webberley hasn't been struck off she just allowed her registration to lapse because she didn't engage with the revalidation process that is required of all doctors.

Witness cannot recall why she wrote things she did in fact write - this was a perfect opportunity to suggest Upton compromised her emails!

Gender reassignment is the PC, and the only requirement is to be proposing to undergo a process of reassignment. It doesn't matter whether you have applied for a GRC.

True. and pertinent to the post you quoted, gender (as we understand it) itself is never a protected characteristic, regardless of the GRC status of the holder. Except that the SC said that gender means the same thing and is interchangeable with sex, in interpreting the law.

Late to this, but:

Warhammer
Software engineer

Are you my husband?

Every time he pretends to be a cow for the DC, nothing weird, he sounds Scottish

JR has asked whoever has a pinging phone to please turn it off.

It turns out it's MC's.

Poor DU. He thought MC was going to be finished by now.

This is reminding me of that scene in A Few Good Men when Demi Moore's character tries to discredit the expert witness and gets slapped down by the Judge.

Wasn’t it an email???

JR U said a concern re being on the same shifts. Why
MC DU was v distressed and had been another diff interaction. SP works fixed night shifts which means the point of concern is begin/end of shift. Overlap between staff meant the day before and after wld be difficult for DU

JR Why did u mention referal to NMC?
MC I dont know. This hadnt happened. I have no recollection of writing this and dont know why I did as I know the information is incorrect

I'm behind again - catching up w 1st IT bod's evidence. Apart from the cropped-screenshots-instead-of-files, hinky dates, and dubious method of evidence production - those notes read very oddly. Much more like a creative writing exercise than a professional note of a work incident.

I can 100% see it happening, more trouble than they are worth.
And as we all know employers don't need do use trans as a reason not to employ something woolly like the other candidate came across better in the interview or better experience. Its impossible to compare how people come across.

There is no evidence that DU has anything other than XY chromosomes

Oh God! Mosaicism now. (Groan)

Fife really needs to find the source of the amnesia gas.

Oh ffs. No one is saying there is only XX or XY. Or denying DSD.

Edit-. And none of this is relevant to Upton anyway

I saw these posts earlier & then lost them. It contains a screenshot of the relevant information as the herald reviewed the docs in the bundle & noted the timing of the changes the forensic bloke picked up on:

https://x.com/scottish_women/status/1948726198248276432?s=46

“BU gave evidence on 12/2/25 that his phone notes re the missing patient incident were contemporaneous, but the Herald has looked at the IT expert report in the bundle which show his notes were edited over a week later to include it”

https://x.com/scottish_women/status/1948727570754629774?s=46

“The evidence bundle did not include the other patient safety concern which alleged that Ms Peggie walked out on a patient in the resuscitation room when Dr Upton entered” - The Herald

Ouch”

https://x.com/scottish_women/status/1948732119682875802?s=46

“And in cross X he made it clear he understood the meaning of the word contemporaneous.

He wasn’t too sure whether he showed KS the notes or just mentioned them. Considering he didn’t have any notes for the resus incident suggests staff took him at his word re his phone notes.”

Is there any suggestion that DU has any such chromosomal difference to that of a standard man? If not why do they keep going on about it?

That is what I meant. I agree it would be more accurate to say 'is no longer registered'.

Where's Emma Hilton when we need her?

JR What do you know about the Ix commencing?
MC It hadnt started. ED was originally due to lead but she was a witness and part of Ix so cldnt lead it. Didnt know who now was going to lead it.
JR We've had evid about chromosomes and genetics.
MC The belief there's only 2

ffs judge - it's after 3 and JR is still talking!