Peggie case: controversial opinion

[SecretNameforMN]

I realise I will probably be lambasted for this and be forced to change my username, but I am going to say it anyway because I genuinely believe it.

I've been a feminist for over 50 years; my entire adult life, in fact.

I am posting because I want to discover whether any other woman, even just ONE, agrees with me.

I have followed the Peggie case very closely and am struck my the fact that it is WOMEN who have taken sides with Upton and against Peggie, who coddled him and suspended her and are now beclowning themselves during their court testimony, as well as exposing their anti-female bias. AFAIK everyone who has given testimony against her is, sadly, female. It horrifies me of course to see women in power siding with men against other women.

I have come to suspect that this debacle would not be happening if all the people in power (those who enabled Upton to use the nurse's changing rooms and those who suspended and who have publicly turned against Sandie Peggie) had been male instead of female.

I suspect if all these positions had been held by males they would not have been driven by the social conditioning to "be kind" to a man who, having had no surgery and not even bothering to get a GRC was in effect just a cross-dresser. I suspect they would have worried about the optics of being men punishing a woman for not wanting to undress in front of someone they knew to be a heterosexual, genitally intact male. I suspect they would have checked the legal position more thoroughly, and, lastly, I don't think a married man with a senior position in the NHS would stand up in court and say he didn't know if he was male or female.

Please don't respond if you are just going to pile on an avalanche of vitriol onto me. I am not looking for that: I am just wanting to find out if there are any other women on here who suspect there may be even a modicum of possiblity that my suspicions may have good cause.

Need a link so people know what the Peggie case is.

Some women never escape the school playground.

They take it to the school gates. They take it to work.

I've not had time for it since I was 17 years old.

It can be true that it's because of women this became embedded in institutions
And
It's because of women it's being stopped and turned around.

More men viewed it as an irrelevant side show which didn't impact them to either bother championing it or to challenge it.

Many exceptions to this of course.

Well quiet, Aunt Lydia’s are dangerous.

Try to imagine a heterosexual man presenting as a heterosexual man who acquires this weird harem-like collection of women ...

I knew one of those decades ago when I was a student. The most toxic person I've ever met. Even as an undergraduate, he had the lecturers (male and female) wrapped around his little finger. He went on to have a glittering career in academia.

Yeah, I think a man presenting as a man would need to have some extraordinary charisma to get away with this.

A man presenting as a woman seems to acquire it ex officio.

The only thing I can think of is, it's like those women who collect gay male friends who they treat as purse puppies, but with the power dynamic reversed. And those women are much less likely to bring it into the workplace.

That's true I think.

But, OP, the issue exists across so many public institutions and even private businesses and they that are not run by women. I suspect you'll find many HR departments which are dominated by women have fallen victim to this ideology in a misguided attempt at being empathethic and compassionate. Or, being cynical, because it's the flavour of today and they want to advance their careers riding the wave of "progress" which in reality means we're going backwards, but they haven't thought that far or they don't care.
In terms of men in senior roles supporting this, I am really not clear. Political point scoring? Personal affiliation? Promise of a reward? Acting against women? Anything is possible, but I suspect it won't be empathy unlike women.

I also think many, many people, even in senior roles, can be breathtakingly unable to think critically.

But the issue of women being more agreeable, and valuing inclusivity and #BeKind over truth, that's absolutely a thing.

Thank the Laird for all the disagreeable women out there. And the disagreeable men, who are quite useful once you manage to wake the buggers up.

In that case women should not be placed in positions of authority.

Yes, I think presenting as a woman gives them an extra glamour - in the archaic sense of the word.

I do think that men seem less likely to fall prey to gender ideology, and less inclined in general to try and enforce social conformity.

Certainly my own experience has been in my last two employments (same sector), a female boss of about 32 massively into anything identity politics and especially gender ideology, who subjected us all to things like anti-bias training, and currently a 60ish man where I have no ideas about his thought on any of it but he hasn't done any of the things that makes me think he does, now does he seem to have any desire to dictate what staff think.

I will say one horrifically generalised and controversial thing, which is that ime a lot of workplaces with nurses can be kind of socially toxic, in a high school kind of way. ANd of course a lot of nurses are women. There is the chicken and egg question there, but it's something i've noticed enough to take note.

I've met a few people like that. Very charismatic, and in one case, absolutely a genius. But very damaged and damaging people.

I think you might have a point except that evidence is against you. There are as many men supporting this junk as women - though possibly from a different standpoint, that of male entitlement.
Many, many women are standing against this regressive ideology. Those who call themselves feminists and support it are deluding themselves.

I agree OP.

Two words. Nicola Sturgeon.

A prime example.

I don't think there are as many men supporting it. Any polls etc I've seen suggest not.

It’s a somewhat lower percentage but there’s quite a lot of vociferous male supporters, many in influential positions.

A lot of it was to do with status in my opinion ... backing a consultant over a nurse. I think also, they had no clue, of what to do in this situation.

Potentially a very brave accusation to make about many posters here...

What, that we’re prone to groupthink or that many of us are contrarian old trouts?
nah… we’re not all old.

I think if you haven't worked in the NHS you wouldn't realise that bullying and power games that have always existed. There are more things that can be used to bully people now, and gender ideology is one that offers opportunities. and social media raises awareness. The nursing hierarchy perpetuates this culture, midwives are even worse IME ( I was harangued in the middle of the labour ward for having the temerity to take time off sick following a miscarriage at 13 weeks). Then there has always been the Drs vs nurses culture which usually means nurses get blamed for everything.
Having spoken to friends and relatives working in Teaching, Civil Service, Local Government, the work environment seems to be exactly the same.

Re the class element, I suspect the number one correlation for adherence to gender ideology is university education.

And these days more women go to university than men. And in particular, in the humanities and social sciences which are where this crap is promulgated.

Though that doesn't tell us whether women are picking this stuff up from the universities, or the universities are prone to it because they have such a preponderance of women.

It's interesting that this is in fact the direction a lot of the men who have become involved with opposing gender ideology started from.

It's also the direction I started from, probably because I'm non-binary too😜.

This is a statistical error, you can make a true statement about a group, but can't just apply that same statement to individuals in the group.

Interesting way to stereotype women on a feminist board.

I do not quite agree with this facile explanation that is rolled out all too often. Trans Ideology has taken root not with the most oppressed women of the world but the most privileged in the west who often pride themselves as the most openminded and progressive. It was led by feminist organisations and some of the most well known intellectuals of the feminist movement in the affluent west where women are least likely to be subjugated and brainwashed. Most of the feminist organisations in western universities and NGOs are in thrall to the trans cause, as are female unionists and political party leaders. The women fighting back were and still are a minority of the elite feminist leadership and a lot are less well-known and less-credentialed ordinary women. When social contagions take place, women, especially young women, play a prominent role in spreading them. Many of the GC women were peaked when they saw the huge numbers of young girls transing, a social phenomenon unknown before 2010. Social contagions acquire momentum when first elites adopt new ideas or trends and then a critical "mass" follow. Western feminism itself with its slogans and gender theory has played a part in this mess.