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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DH -v- The WI, Thread 2

703 replies

Another2Cats · 22/07/2025 07:33

@RareGoalsVerge rightly pointed out (thank you) on my previous thread that it was getting near the limit and that I should start a second thread, so this is it.

This is a link to the first thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

So, a recap.

DH has long had an interest in a couple of activities that were only offered locally by the WI. Obviously, it never crossed his mind to try and join as the WI is a woman only organisation - or so he thought.

But then, following the FWS case, the WI made an announcement that they would continue accepting trans identifying men (TIM) as members.

I suggested to DH that he could now join the WI and jokingly said (although it wasn't really funny, I'm not good at jokes) that he wouldn't have to bother with a wig and lippy any more.

So DH applied to join the local federation and was rejected.

Various things then happened and DH is now bringing a sex discrimination claim against the WI.

The WI instructed a big Tier 1 London law firm, one of the partners of which then called DH and explained that they would be relying on section 158, Equality Act and invited him to withdraw his claim.

After that they sent a letter to DH stating that in addition to the section 158 defence it was also the case that the WI "does not purport to establish single sex membership within the meaning of the EqA"

They went on to say:

"As such, it is free to define “women who have reached the Age of Majority” within its Membership Rules as it pleases, as long as its definition is not discriminatory. As we explain below, the definition “women who live as women, including transgender women” is not discriminatory."

They also said that their membership policy does not discriminate on the grounds of sex or render reassignment and that:

"The Membership Policy does not exclude anyone on these grounds. It allows for the admission of “biological” men as members, as long as they are living as women. It also allows for the admission of people who are not trans, as long as they are living as women."
.

So that is where we are as of today. The next step in the process will be in early August so there probably won't be any substantive update to the thread until then.

But, as I said earlier, even though I don't always reply to every post I do read every single comment (often more than once) and having people take an interest really does make a difference. Thank you.
.

PS In their letter, they put quotation marks around the word biological - "biological" (see above). Both DH and I were rather confused by this and thought that they were perhaps quoting him in the Particulars of Claim, but DH hadn't used that term.

On looking at the letter in more detail, the answer was found in one of the footnotes. They said:

2 Where references are made to “biological” sex in in this letter, quotation marks are used to make it clear that we refer to the term as used by the Supreme Court in FWS, to mean sex as recorded at birth. This is not a term that NFWI would otherwise use itself, because sex (including the sex of trans and intersex people) is not binary in this way.

[emphasis added]

Well, it's going to be interesting to hear that point argued in court. DH did make a point in the Particulars of Claim to keep referring to "men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment", perhaps this annoyed them a bit?

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them. | Mumsnet

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the S...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
SadSadTimes · 03/12/2025 10:52

Happy Times

TheSandgroper · 03/12/2025 10:54

I was highly entertained by the press release “so sad, can’t have men” which was immediately preceded by the press release of 16 October “men get treated better. How awful”. Such a juxtaposition.

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 03/12/2025 10:56

Goodness me people are going to be needing a lot of new clothes with all the rending of garments going on!

as long as they're clear their sisterhood groups are mixed sex don't
pretend they're just for women that's fine

i expect they'll go the way that those swimming competitions for trans ppl went ie nowhere as without the validation, what was the point?

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 03/12/2025 10:56

SidewaysOtter · 03/12/2025 10:51

(With my nosy hat on, what's happened that suddenly Girlguiding AND the WI have changed their policies in the last 24 hours when they clearly didn't want to...?)

I have a feeling they were using the same lawyers but I may be misremembering that. Hopefully someone can clarify

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 03/12/2025 10:59

Another2Cats · 06/11/2025 07:28

I'm fine, thank you. The case is progressing as slowly as legal cases do. DH has filed and served his Directions Questionnaire and also his Reply to Defence.

However, there are a number of things going on in the background that I am not at liberty to talk about.

As and when these things are resolved I will (or may be) in a position to update this thread more freely.

Hopefully you can now fill us in on what was happening in the background? 🍿

OnlyAWomansHeart · 03/12/2025 10:59

@Another2Cats

  • What would happen if you didn’t make this change?
  • Not doing so would leave us at risk of costly legal challenge and potential regulatory action from the Charity Commission. We have a public duty to ensure our charity is not in breach of the law.

Thank you to you and your husband for your hard work bringing justice for women in this area.

The law is the law.

SabrinaThwaite · 03/12/2025 11:00

Woohoo! Well done to @Another2Cats and MrAnother2Cats.

EmpressaurusKitty · 03/12/2025 11:04

I hope Mr @Another2Cats is able to enjoy his chosen activities in the local Sisterhood group!

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 11:05

How much of their members cash have they spaf… er… wasted in order to try and keep centring men? The law firms are winning even when they lose.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 11:07

Who was it that was trying to re-educate us all with their superior knowledge on shared characteristics and their relevance to associations and single sex exemptions? Seems like we were right after all 😂

EmpressaurusKitty · 03/12/2025 11:10

Trans UK Reddit’s take on it seems to be that the WI won’t be able to tell people’s sexes.

Davros · 03/12/2025 11:10

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 03/12/2025 10:56

Goodness me people are going to be needing a lot of new clothes with all the rending of garments going on!

as long as they're clear their sisterhood groups are mixed sex don't
pretend they're just for women that's fine

i expect they'll go the way that those swimming competitions for trans ppl went ie nowhere as without the validation, what was the point?

Like the emperor, they’re not wearing any clothes. And now we can say that out loud

OhDear111 · 03/12/2025 11:11

@GargoylesofBeelzebubThey will have taken legal advice on how to proceed. This takes time and both have a committee system for consideration and decisions. It’s slow! However they intend to abide by the law and the BBC has linked both decisions together today. So everyone is getting there!

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 03/12/2025 11:12

Oh I am very much enjoying the Reddit reaction to this and the GG announcement.

Datun · 03/12/2025 11:13

Jesus wept, the absolute cringing subordination of these women to men is embarrassing.

Prostrating themselves in the service of sexist men, left right and bloody centre.

Apart from anything else, we know, full well, that as soon as you let a man into a woman's space, they dominate it. That has to be the experience of these women. Are they so ground down by sexism, that they think it's normal??

Personally, I seriously doubt it.

These places have been infiltrated by transactivists, or women hopelessly in thrall to the ideology, and the sooner they're out the better.

Fortunately, without women to subordinate by celebrating all the men in their presence, they won't hang around.

Funny how none of these places ever do an anonymous poll of their membership, isn't it.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 11:14

EmpressaurusKitty · 03/12/2025 11:10

Trans UK Reddit’s take on it seems to be that the WI won’t be able to tell people’s sexes.

They have a very poor opinion of their trans ‘sisters’. Do they really want to give the impression that TW will continue to try and join the WI and be dishonest? That doesn’t sound very nice or kind of them.

EyesOpening · 03/12/2025 11:15

Well done OP!

minxymix · 03/12/2025 11:22

I wonder if they got wind of possible other challenges potentially funded by a someone with v deep pockets?????

Catiette · 03/12/2025 11:22

I think the cringingly apologetic tone of the GG & WI statements in itself shows how important it still is to have female-only orgs.

Helleofabore · 03/12/2025 11:23

Thank you @Another2Cats and Mr Another2Cats!

Catiette · 03/12/2025 11:25

Seconded, from a grateful Cat herself.

Boiledeggandtoast · 03/12/2025 11:28

And thank you from me too, @Another2Cats and your husband.

SabrinaThwaite · 03/12/2025 11:29

EmpressaurusKitty · 03/12/2025 11:10

Trans UK Reddit’s take on it seems to be that the WI won’t be able to tell people’s sexes.

There is much wailing and rending of garments going on over there.

ChipKing · 03/12/2025 11:29

Whoop whoop. Well done.

ArabellaScott · 03/12/2025 11:32

😍