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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DH -v- The WI, Thread 2

703 replies

Another2Cats · 22/07/2025 07:33

@RareGoalsVerge rightly pointed out (thank you) on my previous thread that it was getting near the limit and that I should start a second thread, so this is it.

This is a link to the first thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

So, a recap.

DH has long had an interest in a couple of activities that were only offered locally by the WI. Obviously, it never crossed his mind to try and join as the WI is a woman only organisation - or so he thought.

But then, following the FWS case, the WI made an announcement that they would continue accepting trans identifying men (TIM) as members.

I suggested to DH that he could now join the WI and jokingly said (although it wasn't really funny, I'm not good at jokes) that he wouldn't have to bother with a wig and lippy any more.

So DH applied to join the local federation and was rejected.

Various things then happened and DH is now bringing a sex discrimination claim against the WI.

The WI instructed a big Tier 1 London law firm, one of the partners of which then called DH and explained that they would be relying on section 158, Equality Act and invited him to withdraw his claim.

After that they sent a letter to DH stating that in addition to the section 158 defence it was also the case that the WI "does not purport to establish single sex membership within the meaning of the EqA"

They went on to say:

"As such, it is free to define “women who have reached the Age of Majority” within its Membership Rules as it pleases, as long as its definition is not discriminatory. As we explain below, the definition “women who live as women, including transgender women” is not discriminatory."

They also said that their membership policy does not discriminate on the grounds of sex or render reassignment and that:

"The Membership Policy does not exclude anyone on these grounds. It allows for the admission of “biological” men as members, as long as they are living as women. It also allows for the admission of people who are not trans, as long as they are living as women."
.

So that is where we are as of today. The next step in the process will be in early August so there probably won't be any substantive update to the thread until then.

But, as I said earlier, even though I don't always reply to every post I do read every single comment (often more than once) and having people take an interest really does make a difference. Thank you.
.

PS In their letter, they put quotation marks around the word biological - "biological" (see above). Both DH and I were rather confused by this and thought that they were perhaps quoting him in the Particulars of Claim, but DH hadn't used that term.

On looking at the letter in more detail, the answer was found in one of the footnotes. They said:

2 Where references are made to “biological” sex in in this letter, quotation marks are used to make it clear that we refer to the term as used by the Supreme Court in FWS, to mean sex as recorded at birth. This is not a term that NFWI would otherwise use itself, because sex (including the sex of trans and intersex people) is not binary in this way.

[emphasis added]

Well, it's going to be interesting to hear that point argued in court. DH did make a point in the Particulars of Claim to keep referring to "men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment", perhaps this annoyed them a bit?

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them. | Mumsnet

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the S...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5333650-an-update-to-the-wi-announcement-thread-my-dh-just-got-a-reply-to-his-application-to-join-them

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Ineedtoseetobelieve32 · 02/12/2025 19:29

OP, did you see the Girl Guiding update? Potentially, the WI will follow suit..

CautiousLurker2 · 02/12/2025 20:22

Ineedtoseetobelieve32 · 02/12/2025 19:29

OP, did you see the Girl Guiding update? Potentially, the WI will follow suit..

Here’s hoping!

WallaceinAnderland · 02/12/2025 23:12

Yes, I can't see how they can come to any other decision now. Hampstead ponds too.

Marmaladelover · 02/12/2025 23:21

I am looking forward to hearing the outcome of the diversity inclusion and equality meeting NFWI are having with the Feds tomorrow . I do hope even more awkward questions are asked now in the light of today’s announcement .

could we finally see it all gone tomorrow ? Fingers crossed !

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 02/12/2025 23:26

WallaceinAnderland · 02/12/2025 23:12

Yes, I can't see how they can come to any other decision now. Hampstead ponds too.

Yes, had they all 3 had 'advice' from the same solicitors/barrister/chambers/similar or am I making that up?

Marmaladelover · 02/12/2025 23:35

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 02/12/2025 23:26

Yes, had they all 3 had 'advice' from the same solicitors/barrister/chambers/similar or am I making that up?

No that is correct Bate Wells

nauticant · 03/12/2025 10:27

According to a trail at the start of the programme, WI are shortly going to be on Woman's Hour to make a statement that they will be making with the greatest amount of sorrow.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 03/12/2025 10:33

Ooh, Sad Times? That sounds promising.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:35

Spoiler:

https://www.thewi.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases

Harassedevictee · 03/12/2025 10:37

@nauticant thanks for the heads up. I’m listening and waiting for this.

Harassedevictee · 03/12/2025 10:38

https://www.thewi.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases
In April, the Supreme Court in the UK ruled that the legal definition of a woman under the Equality Act (2010) refers only to biological sex. Since the ruling, we have reviewed our long-held practice and membership policy to ensure we are compliant with the law. Today (Wednesday, 3 December), we have announced we can no longer legally offer formal membership to transgender women in light of this judgment. However, we will bring forward programmes to continue to extend fellowship, sisterhood, and support to transgender women. Read our full statement below from CEO Melissa Green:

It is with the utmost regret and sadness that we must announce that, from April 2026, we can no longer offer formal membership to transgender women. As an organisation that has proudly welcomed transgender women into our membership for more than 40 years, this is not something we would do unless we felt that we had no other choice.
To be able to continue operating as the Women’s Institute - a legally recognised women’s organisation and charity - we must act in accordance with the Supreme Court’s judgment and restrict formal membership to biological women only. However, this change is only in respect to our membership policy and does not change our firm belief that transgender women are women.
We know that many of our members will find this decision extremely painful. We have been actively seeking alternative ways - outside of formal membership - of continuing to extend fellowship, sisterhood, and support to transgender women, who have been such an important part of our WI family.
In April 2026, we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.
Our activity outside of formal membership has always and will continue to play a vital role in creating welcoming spaces where all women can come together to learn, share ideas, and work together to improve lives in our communities. We remain absolutely committed to delivering on that mission.
Why are you announcing this now?

  • Since the Supreme Court’s judgment, we have been working closely with legal advisers to understand the impact of the ruling on our organisation and what we must do next.
  • Due to the impact we know this will have on our members, we have considered the issue extensively to ensure we have explored all options available to us before making any changes.
  • We have now finished that work and have regrettably concluded that we have no other choice but to make these changes to our membership criteria if we are to continue to operate legally as a women’s organisation and charity.
  • Although we are still awaiting formal guidance from the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) on how to apply this judgment in practice, we have done our due diligence as an organisation and taken independent legal advice.
  • We also owe it to our members to be upfront and honest with them about the issues that might affect them, so we wanted to inform them as soon as we could. We also want to ensure that while our legal change is clear, our intention to maintain our sisterhood with transgender women is equally clear.
What would happen if you didn’t make this change?
  • While we are still awaiting formal, comprehensive guidance from the EHRC on how to apply the judgment in practice, as a charity, we must abide by the law.
  • Not doing so would leave us at risk of costly legal challenge and potential regulatory action from the Charity Commission. We have a public duty to ensure our charity is not in breach of the law.
What happens now to existing transgender women members?
  • While we can no longer offer transgender women formal memberships from 1 April 2026 (the start of our new subscription year), we remain committed to continuing our support for transgender women through other activities outside of formal membership.
  • We are encouraging members with concerns or questions about the new policy to contact us directly at [email protected] so that we can provide support.
  • We will be working with our transgender members and our wider membership between now and April 1 2026, to support them and to clarify the details of our new membership policy.
How will you continue to support and engage with transgender women outside of traditional memberships?
  • We remain clear that our strong belief is that transgender women are women. They have been part of the WI family for 40 years, and they will remain part of that family.
  • We know that many of our members will find this decision extremely painful, but we have been actively seeking alternative ways - outside of formal membership - of continuing to extend fellowship, sisterhood, and support to transgender women.
  • For example, in April 2026, we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.
  • This is just one of several things that we are working on developing into full programmes with the support of existing members, NFWI staff, and trustees. These will be launched from April 2026, and we will provide more details on the full range of programmes in due course.
MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/12/2025 10:39

Finally!

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 10:40

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:35

🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾🍾
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

oh the heavy hearts and sorrows are working hard this week.

How will the folks who identify as kind try and make women feel guilty for not centring the men folk?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Harassedevictee · 03/12/2025 10:42

@Another2Cats a big thank you to you and your DH. You have added to the pressure on the WI, and others, to change their policy to comply with the law.
👏👏💐💐

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:43

we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

So women plus Transwomen, still illegal then Hmm

NoBinturongsHereMate · 03/12/2025 10:43
Celebrate The Bachelor GIF

Oh no, they have to follow the law!

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 10:43

Harassedevictee · 03/12/2025 10:42

@Another2Cats a big thank you to you and your DH. You have added to the pressure on the WI, and others, to change their policy to comply with the law.
👏👏💐💐

Seconded …. Although sad for your husband who won’t be able to join now 😊

HeadyLamarr · 03/12/2025 10:44

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:43

we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

So women plus Transwomen, still illegal then Hmm

Nah, it says all people, so men can join these Sisterhood groups too.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/12/2025 10:45

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:43

we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

So women plus Transwomen, still illegal then Hmm

“All people”….so maybe OPs husband can join in after all!

NoBinturongsHereMate · 03/12/2025 10:45

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:43

we will be launching a national network of local WI Sisterhood groups, which will offer monthly opportunities for all people, including transgender women, to come together to socialise, learn from each other, and share their experiences of living as women.

So women plus Transwomen, still illegal then Hmm

If it is 'all people' it's fine. If they try to keep out men-who-are-men, it's not.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/12/2025 10:46

It's says all people, but it then says to "share their experiences of living as women"...

NoBinturongsHereMate · 03/12/2025 10:47

Yes. I'd be so tempted to go along to one and ask awkward questions about that part...

SidewaysOtter · 03/12/2025 10:50
Happy Well Done GIF by Top Talent

Christmas has come early, well done to @Another2Cats and MrAnother2Cats!

SidewaysOtter · 03/12/2025 10:51

(With my nosy hat on, what's happened that suddenly Girlguiding AND the WI have changed their policies in the last 24 hours when they clearly didn't want to...?)

murasaki · 03/12/2025 10:52

SidewaysOtter · 03/12/2025 10:51

(With my nosy hat on, what's happened that suddenly Girlguiding AND the WI have changed their policies in the last 24 hours when they clearly didn't want to...?)

Yes, I was wondering that.

Well done to the OP and MrOP for their sterling efforts.