NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

Oh CM will be getting it in the neck from KS, ED and LC at a minimum.

I've been absent since about page 9. Finally got off sleeve island with this bloody jacket I've been trying to finish while the tribunal is on, my fault entirely, should have planned my schedule better to get it done before the tribunal even started.

I am actually trying everything I can to get tired, and get some quality sleep so I'm poised for tomorrow, but like someone up thread said, it is Kate Searle eve and I'm scared the Elves will appear if my eyes dare to close.

Incidentally it was me who suggested Naut do a post when the tribunal starts for the day (I saw someone criticising this). I figured then people could just click on See all and go straight to the post if they didn't want the speculation and gossip.

I'd just say the door was open - no snibs around here!

It was a good idea, if yet another job for Naut....she's doing more than enough.

Please could someone remind me of the (rough) dimensions of the changing room? I've just realised I've been imagining it as a big space, like at a gym (god knows why - I work in hospitals!) then something today led me to imagining how I'd feel changing (menstrually stained) clothes next to Dr Upton, and I wondered what the space is like.

Thank you xx

the internal document commenting on the commissioner being sent to a random member of the public is hugely unusual, wouldn’t be surprised if the person handling that data request just wanted that to be made public.

If it's the same one as on the map posted in the last thread, it looked no bigger than a triage room. The men's was almost triple the size.

I truly wonder if there's a double agent in there. Because there's shitty management, and then there's shitty and stupid management, and then there's NHS Fife where I can't quite believe you can reach this level of ridiculousness by accident.

Yes, he rowed back his claims in the investigation too:
'Dr Upton told investigators that his "concerns were more in relation to potential issues that could happen in the future" and that they "did not feel patient safety was compromised for this patient at this time." '
Wee snake.

I personally wouldn't give a shit if the man was 2 foot away or 20 foot away I don't want a man in the female changing room regardless of it's a little room or a bloody ballroom.

I feel i must be evil (not really) for enjoying the public flailing for all these people who have no scruples and no integrity.

i hope Sandie takes comfort from that and our support.

I know she cannot now, but i hope one day she will pop here when it is all over, just like our Jo Phoenix.

One thing i know i was wrongly accused in a tribunal, i jumped for joy when it was all thrown out but the next day that elation left me, it took me years to get past it. But i was alone.

I also hope she is now in the inner coven, of the plan that comes together.

Night. Hope Santa brings us the laugh emoji...

Well I have finally caught up!

And am gutted to have a morning meeting tomorrow which cannot be moved and which means I'm likely to miss the entirety of KS' evidence. Gah!

I think they said they expected her in the morning and then the forensic phone chap (Pete?) in the afternoon. So hopefully I can catch that. I'm assuming we won't be regaled with lists of rude remarks about colleagues who are not SP because JR looked positively jolly about that session.

Night night

I'm perplexed about why JR thinks the racist/homophobia smears help Fife's case. Is it possible that part of SP's case is that she was in good standing, of good reputation, respected by colleagues, and the damage to that as a result of the unwarranted investigation & suspension is part of the detriment? If Fife can show that she wasn't respected and didn't have a good reputation, then that detriment wasn't suffered by her. A bit like a defence that's occasionally used in defamation cases - the defamed party's name was already mud so there's no damage from the offending words.

Or is she trying to claim that it was reasonable to proceed as they did because it was highly likely that she was transphobic?

I can't see either working, but could either of then be Fife's plan?

I am so looking forward to KS tomorrow that I have brought out my old username in anticipation.

Usually when there is media attention attached to information released to the public (press, SAR, freedom of information request, parliamentary question etc) the final response is tediously prepared. As in large email chains with department directors, deputy directors, ministers, policy senior leaders, legal teams etc signing off the data & narrative.

If they can decline to release, they will. Hence why Fife’s initial response re legal costs.

However this level of sign off wouldn’t be common for unremarkable SARs by a member of the public, so there was likely little oversight of what was being sent.

Reading between the lines, the fact that damning document was sent to a member of the public, indicates at the very least that the data team was worried about it. Was probably an internal shitshow before the document was wrongly shared, data team very much monitoring it and talking about it.

I wonder if the email leak was deliberate. If there is a double agent, I hope they've got more planned! Maybe they can track down the mystery document that disappeared before CM's eyes...

She is bless her and I don't want to add to her workload.

People can just scroll through, I really didn't see the issue!

I hate celery but had no problem with the chat but then as referred to by others I am a veteran TMS listener so pigeons and cake before play is totally in my wheelhouse.

Absolutely I'm totally used to rainy hours being filled with all sorts of none cricket related chat. I was at a showery one day-er at the oval many years when every wet spell was used for a paper plane nearest the wicket contest. Happy memories.

Ps celery is revolting

I was thinking more for people who don't have the time to enjoy the chit chat. But let's not fill up this thread with it.

Celery is crunchy pond water.

Does anyone know if SP's statement/particulars of claim is published anywhere?

I can't believe that KS is on the stand tomorrow and I won't be able to follow events bar the odd loo break because irony of all ironies we have a disciplinary at work tomorrow (don't worry I'm not in the hot seat).

Would TT have covered it as read out at the beginning?

My aged mum just whatsapped me (she's just having her home dialysis sorted by dad) saying she's very much looking forward to TT's coverage of KS tomorrow. Apparently my dad is not. The huffing and snorting and swearing are annoying him even though he fully agrees. Haha.

There was a case management order posted on Sex Matters' website in February but that seems to have been taken down. I transcribed a list of the claims.... hang on I shall try to find them