NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

question for @prh47bridge or anyone else who knows the answer.

JR is a KC, acting without a junior; NC is not a KC, but does have a junior. Isn't that an inversion of the usual rules?

NC identifying two different reports, one that CM dismissed + SP back to work, another, by unidentified, mentioning the trans prisoner/rapist allegation.

I think so. I would put a lot of money on NHS Fife not being able to back this one up with a specific date or doctor or, if they can, the comment being something no reasonable person would regard as racist (e.g. "Vindaloo is too spicy for me"). Given how keen they have been to throw the mud, if they really had something specific I would have expected to hear it will before this.

I'm a Ms too - don't like Mrs or Miss.

wrong order sorry

2:08pm
Ms Myles said that while Ms Peggie did not accept Dr Upton's female status, there appeared to be no "derogatory language" in the statement summary.
She said she was unaware of the case of the trans prisoner convicted of rape, and therefore at that point she did not consider this hateful, but on reflection, she said it would be a hate comment.

From TT

NC: And if we look at the Datix as the other candidate for 'the statement'. [ref] If this were what you meant - even this report doesn't make you think SP had said anything derogatory?
CM: The 2 are very different - Datix much more info re trans rapist in prison
NC: Did you know who wrote the Datix?
CM: No and still don't - just know it was someone else
NC: [ref] You to SP 12/3 saying revoking suspension and only need to sort out non-overlapping shifts now. So now you need to get rotas from Esther for nursing and from consultants for doctor rotas.
NC: And both ED and the Drs hostile to SP return?
CM: Yes initially unhappy but I explained it was my decision, to have both SP and DU in the workplace

Fifer : richt, listen the noo. Lottie here is the guy fae Pulp Fiction played by Harvey Keitel. The wolf aye. She's a fixer. Gits it fixed. Gets aw * telt and telt tae tak a tellin and telt hoo it is noo. NC respects that.

Cm chucking the board under the bus now

NC: SP asked that DU not use the female CR?
CM: I explained I couldn't guarantee that because not my decision - only that they wd not be working at the same time

It doesn't matter if SP said she didn't like the smell of Vindaloo or picked up the curry and threw it all over the doctor. She wasn't being investigated for racist behaviour and it was undeniably 100% out of order to mention it in the context of her suspension on different grounds.

From TT

NC: Is it fair to say ED and the Drs dragged their feet giving you the info?
CM: I wdn't say fair - I new ED had leave and actually so did I, I can see it cd look like dragged feet but was just about ppl taking leave.
NC: Suggestion to SP of different location, she wasn't happy about that. Minor injuries?
CM: Yes I suggested some places I was manager for
NC: SP wanted her own placement back?
CM: Yes and quite fair to want that
NC: SP asked that DU not use the female CR?
CM: I explained I couldn't guarantee that because not my decision - only that they wd not be working at the same time
NC: Can see it was not your ability to say, but, what SP was being told was that any man cd use female
CR if the wanted?
CM: I don't know what anyone more senior was saying.
NC: But can you see that saying DrU wd still be using, that is what SP is hearing?
CM {too fast
NC: Your letter 28/3 reinstating the suspension bcs insistence SP do day shifts, which she couldn't do. Fair summary?
CM: Yes

They'll need a whole fleet of🚌!

CM so far the only person to take accountability for anything: "my decision" to bring SP back to work.

from herald
2:22pm
Ms Cunningham asks about the suggestions of Ms Peggie being placed at minor injuries at Queen Margaret Hospital in Dunfermline.
Ms Myles said she completely respected this decision given A&E at Victoria Hospital was her "bread and butter".
She also said she could not guarantee to Ms Peggie that Dr Beth Upton would not use female changing rooms upon her return to work.
It was not her area of management to guarantee this, Ms Myles said, but added she could ensure they would not be working at the same time.

Good point. Of course, KS email which was sent to the consultants, would have travelled round the hospital past the speed of light, especially as Sandie was suspended so everyone would be asking where she was.

Whereas Sandie wasn't allowed to talk about it at work. I understand that this was an uncomfortable environment for her. It also meant, of course, that she wasn't able to speak to others about the changing rooms as well.

I'm sure some of Sandie's colleagues put two and two together and unlike some of the managers, made four. Also they were asked about the walk out incidents and remembered one said Sandie seemed normal with Dr. Upton.

Success has many parents; failure is always an orphan.

Agreed. It would be fascinating to hear from Sandie's colleagues as to how they felt about the whole thing.

NC: Email to Belinda Morgan saying you are not designated contact any more, says return to work going well - vindication of your decision?
CM: Yes was pleased that SP back at work and supported. Not really discussed any further but that SP thriving and no further probs.

The End. And they all lived happily every after...🙄

The racism allegation seems highly vague, and the occasionally referenced homophobia non-existent? Both would be serious allegations were there any evidence whatsoever.

From TT

NC: And letter 1/4 to you SP writes offering to do day shifts at the weekend, as a compromise? Under protest@
CM: Yes, and reaching out to compromise was welcome and appreciated?
J: I don't see 'under protest'?
CM: That was from conversation with SP not the letter.
NC: Email to Belinda Morgan saying you are not designated contact any more, says return to work going well - vindication of your decision?
CM: Yes was pleased that SP back at work and supported. Not really discussed any further but that SP thriving and no further probs

Fifer : CM could get back to QM, job done, abdy took their tellin and so far stayed telt.

from herald
2:26pm
On March 28, Ms Peggie's suspension was reinstated because she insisted she could not work day shifts but on April 1, Ms Peggie offers to work day shifts at the weekend as a compromise.
These compromises were "appreciated", Ms Myles said, adding that Ms Peggie was then "thriving" back at work.
Ms Cunningham presents the idea that Ms Peggie would always "thrive" at work, given she had "30 years of unblemished" service.
Ms Myles said she could not speak to this assumption.

I have a mental block about "tendentious" - I have looked it up lots of times but can never remember what it means. I get it mixed up with "sententious" - I can't remember what that means either.

From TT

NC: Very positive but also unsurprising - SP has 30 year career, shd never have been suspended at all
CM: Can only speak to my own role - getting SP back, and back onto her night shifts, was right decision.
NC: Were you aware of any chance in risks that might need to be assessed re SP between early Jan and your 7/3 meeting?
CM: No not aware
NC: Not shown anything re raised risk?
CM: No - went off her record and history, and our mtg, no risk to anybody

Fifer "no risk to anybody". There's yer risk assessment! Boom.

NC: Were you aware of any chance in risks that might need to be assessed re SP between early Jan and your 7/3 meeting?
CM: No not aware
NC: Not shown anything re raised risk?
CM: No - went off her record and history, and our mtg, no risk to anybody.

If Sandie had genuinely made racist comments to a doctor, or homophobic comments to anyone, surely that would be taken quite seriously by management and would necessitate disciplinary action?

There was mention of an altercation with a junior doctor a while ago. The situation was promptly resolved. I can't remember if it was to do with racism though