NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

They don't fit in because they were made up.

I don't really understand this. Does it mean we can comment about what is being said as it happens ?

It Is from ED but CM seems to have treated it correctly. Cross exam will be telling.

From TT

MC As mentioned Angie Shepherd and mention legal I thought shld be for a senior manager
(MC cont) Prob Laura not sure what to do with it and wanted advice from a senior manager
JR You didnt take much account of Miss Gribbon's email. Take a look at it now please. What was yr awareness of these issues raised
CM I'm more aware now but wasnt then. I became aware of SP as asked to do a Sx review. Was verbal request to do a Sx review, and agreed to meet SP after brief doc review.

Fifer : ah bet ye're mair aware noo! Wha isnae? (wheesht you)

JR Look at doc on p298, email 22 Feb re being allocated.
CM GM requested I did the review. I had a small amt of paperwork
JR When did she ask?
CM Mon am (?26 Feb). I checked she had report from an MSP. I wanted a faciltated discussion w SP and to discuss next way forward. The convo happened on Tues. I wanted to follow up formally via her personal email

Fifer : ah bet the mention o the MSP was a ring-tichtner.

JR When did u 1st meet SP?
CM 6th March. I'd never met her before. I wasnt aware of her GC views.and didnt line manage her. I cld look at the Sx dispassionately. I didnt know about her beleifs until an hr before the mtg and she had other beleifs others might not have, I was focussing on getting her back into the workplace
JR Did this mtg with Miss Davidson did anything else come up?
CM Not really, she said she was anti-trans. But again, I'd never met her before. The incident was about DU, and ED highlighted that SP had transphobic views due to an incident in a CR. I didnt have any other documentation. I went in blind

Fifer : Straight in tae droppin colleagues richt in it. Nae prisoners here. Must be a guid denner the nicht.

JR What other beliefs?
CM Heresay that homophobic and racist but I tried to disregard views that werent documented

Fifer : osha bastert. Straight intae slaggin off Wee Sondie. She's racist and homophobic aye. Her dochter's lesbitarian for fucks sake min.

NC's lips tighten as the witness volunteers, entirely unprompted, some more scuttlebut about Wee Sondie being a terrible person. She taps her ring once for 'homophobic' and once for 'racist'. If you weren't looking, you wouldn't see. Whatever total is being incremented, it's not going to make CM's dinner taste better, you can bet on that.

JR What did u know about r'ship between SP and DU
CM I only knew about Xmas eve incident. Unless directly involved nothing else
wld have come to me
CM The workforce directorate wld have been involved in the issues that wer ebeing debated about the CR, that I was vaguely aware of but didnt know well
JR GM email re arranging a Sx review mtg. What happened?
CM It wasnt a proper mtg but head through door I said I'd spoken w SP and wld be having a mtg. I wasnt surprised by req for MSP to attend as was used to this type of thing.
JR The SX RA filled in by?
CM Me
JR Who completed the summary
CM I did. It was a summary of the actual meeting.
JR Look at p1334
JR Email to you from JD
J Big Sond questioning page nos
JR On p1337 is a table. Who wrote the info in column 3?
CM I did. It live updates. I'd downloaded it previously and is an actively live document

I've reported 2 of my posts for deletion please, MN

Homophonic, racist, anti trans!! But all hearsay mind you, just to cover my arse.

They seem to be blindly throwing any old shit to see if anything sticks!

JR's qq are showing the degree of prejudice before SP was ever spoken to about the CR incident. I don't see how she's helping her side - but maybe there's no helping them, the facts being what they are!

It might be ok though now the reply from.the judge regarding commenting has been posted. If I've understood it correctly

I mean, most of the evidence I've heard requires sweary commentary, so it's probably appropriate to swear at all times.

Yes - you can comment on proceedings but not repeat large passages verbatim like Tribunal Tweets. So responding No etc is ok.

We also keep up the TT copying and pasting so it makes sense to the vast majority of us without video access.

How to ensure she could go in with an open mind (not). SP’s daughter is a lesbian you loons. She’s not homophobic and there’s no evidence she’s racist either (evidence, remember that concept)? It’s hard not to conclude this is a deliberate ploy by the defence to smear SP then say “but it’s only hearsay” when the damage has been done.

Why do they call her Miss Peggie?.I thought she is married?

Better safe than sorry, Tomato.

Yes. If you are watching the live feed, you need permission if you intend to report on the evidence live as TT is doing, but you do not need permission to comment on what you are hearing and post small excerpts from the evidence to explain/support your comments.

guessing they mean Ms? seems ok to me

That is how I read it. We can comment on our reactions to what is being said, but we can't give a running commentary of the evidence (TT already doing a great job of that).

So ED primed CM that SP was all the phobes and to proceed accordingly.

Nothing like innocent until proven guilty ehh.

Seen as we can no comment

This witness seems to have her head a bit more screwed on than the others to date.

now, not no.

JR Interest of other staff: no overlap w satff member who raised concerns..which negates uncomfortable sitns that may occur. why did u say that?
CM ED can be v stressful. Listening to both parties it was v difficult and wanted her return to be as seemless as pos

I think CM's role is to show that she had been sweetness and light and the voice of reason and fairness.

Will we at some point find out wheat the discussion was prior to the live feed starting? I'd love to know what the judge had to say about NHS Fife's statement.

wanted her return to be as seemless as pos

Does she mean Upton or Sandie?

Sandie

It dosn't look to me like it provides an answer about live-posting on non-Twitter while following the live-stream.

I didn't see any difference at first . But it means that we can post bits of what's being said. Just not word for word transcript like TT