NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

@Peregrina 😂Is there anything in the world that could trigger proper journalism at the Guardian now?!

Harsh words, @Waitwhat23 !

Leibnitz provide the delight of trying to nibble the chocolate edging off without disturbing the biscuit itself. You have to look at the biscuit side, not the chocolate side, to understand this.

Tunnocks - pah!

Women are socially conditioned to appease, to confirm and to be agreeable

Men are encouraged to be individual and independent. They are encouraged to think for themselves.

Note what has happened to a woman who has thought for herself.

So she could be short, or getting close to it, on clinical hours after 18 months of this nonsense.

Which would mean that Fife's delay in processing her case properly and timeously could have caused her career to end. I assume she could take action against them for that. I suspect that even if she wins this case, there might be more litigation involved, if she has the energy for the fight.

How can Sandie possibly go back to work at NHS Fife though?! The whole of the senior management seem to be against her.

The recent decision in Linzi v Northumbria Police now has me wondering if judges should promptly be getting some training from a womens rights organisation - Sex Matters, for example. @Justabaker maybe you could point point out a possible revenue stream. Although if Naomi ever needs an appeal the biased training might be useful and perhaps she thinking peaking judges in court is better.

I literally just saw this on TwiX and came here to see if it had been shared. So the 'contemporaneous note-taking' was already a habit of DU's before SP crossed paths with him…….? 🤔

Re the timing, and interest taking off: we have recently had the Post Office scandal out in the wild, including the tv series which reached a whole new audience. It engaged emotions, and showed vast numbers of the public in no uncertain terms that things were Not Right on a huge scale with another organisation which runs through British society. So the situation is primed. Not a coincidence that Nick Wallis, the journalist who was dogged in following the whole Post Office scandal, is interested and involved in this area. (His twitter bio includes "not a fan of the genderwang".)

Has this been shared?

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25326411.sandie-peggie-doctor-clashed-others/

They let him down they could have insisted he used the men's they could have insisted he used an office somewhere.

Concerns were raised at the meeting what October- 3 months before Sandie had words - nothing was done. No alternative was even discussed.

They let Sandie down and every other female in that department.
TBH they and he are lucky it was just Sandie who had a few mild words. It could so easily have been a partner who squared up to him and gave him a bit of a sore face.

On the hours for Sandie - she was back at work for some months. Also night shifts tend to be very long, in Fife they are 12 hours. So you dont need many of them to clock up your hours. I guess she may do 3 long nights.

I've sent something her way though I can hardly bring myself to believe this whole debacle is going to need to be repeated in several areas of the NHS before women have the privacy, safety and dignity they need when in a vulnerable situation.

Actually yes, you're right. Assuming a 12 hour shift, though, and about 8.2 weeks annual leave (long service is 33 days + 8 days public holiday), then over 3 years she will have done 3168 hours. So even if you discount the entire 18 months of this process, she would have had 1584 practice hours.

The Times has been on this for years now, not just Janice Turner. Alex Massie has written about GI issues over and over again especially from a Scotland perspective, as have Gillian Bowditch and Iain McWhirter. Lucy Bannerman, Sarah Ditum, Hadley Freeman Jenny can't remember her last name now (Russel?), Kathleen Stock has been give a platform, I'm sure there are others.

https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1946838510142628191?s=61&t=W8z-NdrPTYy21FuiQuezcw

This post on the X thread - The investigation minutes reveal patient safety was never compromised. Dr Upton admitted concerns were about “potential issues that could happen in the future.”
Peggie’s supervisors said they had no concerns about her practice.

Apparently this is from the bundle. If true, it’s key in showing SP did nothing wrong professionally.

You'd have to be wary of any loose fillings while eating a Leibnitz!

As opposed to the pillow-y marshmallowy and coconutty goodness of a Snowball.

Bugger, I've made myself want one now. And there's none in the house!

People on X saying the statement is now at version 7...is that true, or are they just joking??

We are all going to go 'told you so' on this if it turns out to be someone like our common Ploppers who deliberately seek us out, come to take notes (screenshot), throw a completely disproportionate tantrum when we say 'nope you are still a man' and then scold us and try and smear us as right wing and aren't we ashamed and attempt to set all their mates on us (and get MN shut down) isn't it?

And there's fuck all else to it.

It's just they've taken The Script to NHS Fife and played out being The Main Character without challenge and it's not gone down terribly well in the Real World because equality actually does matter and there isn't space for such next level narcissism where women are just support humans.

How 'unfortunate'.

It's all starting to come out now. It's great that journos are being allowed to inspect the bundle.

It's good there are still two colours on the rainbow spectrum so they can extend that to national newspaper coverage for weeks, and international online discussion with many thousands of hits, but will they need a pastel pink and blue square for the ultimate fubar?

ps, the ultimate fubar will be after the judge's final ruling, whatever way it lands, when every investigative journalist who has been sitting on stuff, personal, historical, whatever, that they thought it imprudent to publish during the tribunal, presses go. They'll all be out in minutes, before the parliamentary questions get asked.

I agree, but the point was why was this case in particular getting such traction. 1.2million hits on that email is quite the thing.

yeah, and you can see in the number of comments under articles that readers are paying attention too.

If JR and CLO solicitor instructing her decide there is conflict of interest and they cannot continue to represent NHSF and Dr Upton, I thought they might could continue to represent one and not the other

But I'm now wondering if they might have to withdraw from acting altogether?

Archive of the herald story that states dr Upton had kept notes on issues with other staff members at a previous placement.

archive.ph/ouEIm

I have said this many threads ago but worth repeating with this aspect of SPs under discussion.

Any impact in Sandies pay whilst she was suspended, on day shifts and whilst sick not only impacts her income now but also her pension. Nightshift or unsocial hours payments come to mind.