NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

I thought Cushings or winter coat but didn't clock what time of year this was

ETA: Probably not Cushings though because it's not got those fluffy curls to it

Sorry for the duplication , it wasn’t posting!

Looking at the ET record in The Herald it seems very clear that they were going for SP reputation as a clinican, rather than her GC views. I personally find that disgusting.

It seems that IF they are declaring that patient safety was put at risk by SP there are 2 huge contributing factors that were beyond her control.

1. The entitlement of BU to enter female changing rooms when they are male, with no conisderation for their female colleagues.
2. The lack of consultation, planning and contravening of the EA by NHS Fife with the female staff about the female changing space.

These 2 actions increased the tension between BU and the female staff, and it is easy to predict that there was going to be a confrontation. Its very lucky that it didn't happen where it did compromise patient safety.

No way is JR walking away from this case - it's reputed to be her biggest.
Question is whether she is to give up one of her clients due to conflict of interest. Or whether NHS Fife will realise it is time to stop calling witnesses
I hope not

Under normal circumstances this shit show should stop, but we are in TRA-space now, so it is unlikely. Clearly the in-house legal team at NHS Fife are out of their depth or maybe non-existant? Because the gaffs just keep on coming...

• Appointing the same barrister for themselves and DU
• None of them took a look at the evidence at the start and worked out that they were completely procedurally in the wrong and should have settled way way way before this got anywhere near hearing stage.
• OK let's overlook that - next off-ramp might have been that they realised that their disclosure was incomplete and in doing so spotted all the policy/procedural errors and tried to stop the hearing by offering a big settlement?
• No? Ok then during Part 1 of the Tribunal once the disclosure was complete, putting it together themselves and realising they were in the wrong and pulling all their witnesses instead of calling SP to a disciplinary meeting where they were considering sacking her for unproven gross misconduct?
• Or even in the aftermath of Part 1 after the dust had settled and they realised that DU wasn't maybe the stunning and brave TW they thought and that maybe he had manipulated the disciplinary process as pointed out by NC in the hearing?
• Or even approaching Part 2 when they cleared SP of gross misconduct on the night before the hearing without realising that it completely undermined their own tribunal defence and created a massive conflict of interest for their barrister?
• Or even at the end of only 3 out of 10 days in Part 2 where all their own witnesses had given evidence which benefitted SP's case and completed screwed NHS Fife?
• Nope, what do they do? Issue a press release which attempts simultaneously to go for both contempt of court AND defamation (by seeming to try to get SP to settle by implying her team is biased/responsible for violent threats against NHS Staff). And then edit it multiple times in the next 48 hours so that it attracts MASSIVE press attention...

Honestly I thought the only interesting bit of Part 2 was going to be the phone investigation and KS' evidence. But really I should have cancelled this month's Netflix subscription because this is totally gripping

I think that normally just results in a bigger bill.

😂

Sorry if I am just being off topic/off loading.i am now 63. My short term memory is still I think ok. But what do you make of: i recall being on a pedestrian crossing on Regents Street when I must have been 16. Guy wearing a Gay Pride badge. I thought Fair to him. Later as a student on the Bar course we attended I think Marylebone magistrates with multiple "offending public decency" charges. Again thought this is nonsense. At same time going to a supermarket and there were in the checkout queue 2 what would you say then? Trannies? And i really felt for them. Then and now. But how have we moved on to all this?

I am popping out to local Sainsbury’s for milk, bread & almond croissants. Need to be ready for tomorrow. I truly hope NC fights for us all to still have access.

And I hope that Scotland’s Information Commissioner and their lead Auditor are firing off demands to Carol, the NHS Fife misleading mismanager.

And that RCN are panicking as they are next in SP & NC crosshairs.

Side issue: Sainsburies open at 9pm on. Sunday ??

Do we know who is pulling the legal strings from NHS Fife? We know Dr U will be one, but who from the Trust is instructing JR?

I don't think they will back down voluntarily at this point, it will either take some action from the Board (unlikely, if there was anyone on there with half a brain cell they would have either gotten them to see a bit of sense or resigned), or some pressure from the government. Otherwise they are going to keep tilting at the windmills

Sainsbury’s Local open until 11pm 💪🏻

Local shop Sunday opening hours are very different - even for major chains.

What about if they're difficult and stupid?! 😂😆😂

That crossing has a whole other thread pointing out how dangerous it is for various people, partially sighted, foreign drivers, non-locals, bikes (slide on paint).

Road markings need to conform to certain standards for the above reasons, so its an illegal waste of money

I'm surprised no one has commented on this line:

The evidence of the EDI officer was described as shocking. Managers are scared that they are vulnerable to further Tribunal cases.

Oh hello.

What's going on here?

There are no laws restricting opening times of large supermarkets on Sundays in Scotland like there are in England and Wales.

Who knows but sounds like more work for the ET, someone's got to keep them busy.

If the way they treated Sandie is standard their is bound to be other people they have bullied in the past who will be watching closely

Well does this mean they've taken other action against multiple staff in the past?

I mean Bumba comment was that she got queries about trans stuff very regularly.

That raises a few eyebrows doesn't it?

The post refers to a pedestrian crossing from many years ago, which is not relevant to the rest of the post!

Yes that was my thought too!!

Frustratingly, I'm back at work tomorrow after a week off taken as the 16th date was carved into my brain from the dates earlier in the year. I really should have taken this week off too as I suspect it's going to be full of a lot more twists and turns. On a positive, I can't wait to contact my DEI colleagues and ask their thoughts on everything so far as their view at the start of the case was, "What a horrible bully that wee nurse is misgendering that poor trans doctor". I wonder, and hope, that it's changed.

Looking likely if they are wary of getting another grilling!

I remember back in February Dr Upton told NC the solution for changing rooms/toilets. I don’t suppose anyone has that to hand?

I think there was a quick exchange with NC about private cubicles in front of an area open to all and then a door out into public space.

As some of you know, I hate this arrangement for health and safety. But it would be good to have the transcript for my data collection.

I am presuming the current arrangement was a women’s locker room with a women’s toilet cubicle off? I don’t know whether that was private/enclosed? Dr Upton said he was listening I believe, so I expect not.

The reason Dr Upton’s design would be so bad is it is unsafe and unhealthy. But least unsafe for men without health conditions.

Unisex toilets are scientifically proven to have most pathogens in hospitals, and single sex toilets are recommended.

The tolerance of the past has been eroded by trans activists. This thread is a good starting point
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me