NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

I doubt that NC, MF, etc. have approved it. I suspect they have demanded certain changes and NHS Fife have complied. That doesn't mean it is ok, but it probably takes away the immediate threat of being sued for libel.

WTAF is wrong with them.

They are already a national laughing stock [for so many reasons] but for the multi-versions of that stupid 1,800 'statement' (despite saying subsequently that commenting while the ET is in place it would be inappropriate for them to comment).

It's beyond farce now. I used to be a lawyer (no longer practicing) and if i were JR I would be rocking in a corner well into my second bottle of whiskey by now.

On the Herald & the Courier - we should show support even if only £1 sign up for 3 months so they can see there is support for their work on this case.

It’s the least we can do for the light & oxygen they are bringing to this space.

They deserve a place in history alongside Sex Matters, TT and the women of Mumsnet among others.

I suspect it means NC et al said “this is libellous and we will be considering our position” and NHS Fife said “argh, we had better make changes pronto to limit our liability”

I am confused. How many versions of this press release have been released?

Honestly NHS Fife is being led by donkies

Until you forget to cancel your subscription because you forgot you had it and four months later you’re £50 down.

if there was a way to pay a small fee to read an article without having to provide your email address, etc, then I’d be in.

I think you are confusing how people get to be an 'eminent consultant'.

Some of them genuinely are eminent and incredibly respected in their field.

And some of them are just good at committees.

You could look at the example of the RCPLondon which is currently tearing itself apart over it's role in physician associates - heavily backed by leaders, massively unpopular with those doing the work on the ground.

The leadership will just go with whatever sounds in with the government of the day.

This.

The Courier is part of DC Thomson, a huge publishing group which has been around forever. I've had an email from them confirming all the details of the subscription. All I have to do is make a diary note to cancel it in 3 months if I don't want to pay more.

Well we say that don't we? That they will cave?
But I don't think they will. We are going to see more ETs by companies who dig in. They are already ignoring the SC ruling. I'm ordering in the popcorn because I don't think they will go down quietly at all. I reckon it will take 2 years of totally cringeworthy tribunals and massive reputational damage before some of these ideologues get the message that women have basic human rights. Sadly

I'm still on thread 31, which was confusing for a bit because I hit The Statement, which of course for me was not the one originally posted. I was baffled by that * at the end about not implicating SM. Anyway, all the musical/TV/book suggestions have a) given me a Fame earworm and b) suddenly made me think Hilary Mantel would have been a brilliant option for serialising a book of it all, because I've just finished reading Wolf Hall. Gah. Rest her soul.

I can't wait until I'm working again so I can do some serious, serious gardening.

Alasdair Clark, the journalist who wrote the article:

@alasdair_clark
Some people messaging me and tweeting to complain about @thecourieruk's paywall.

Understand it's annoying but this type of journalism isn't free. This article is the result of around one week of work by a team which cumulatively has over 50 years of experience. That costs money

I know people have said it has to be very serious for a barrister to sack her client.
Is releasing a potentially libellous statement slagging off the other sides legal team whilst JR is standing up in court representing them, without forewarning her, serious enough?

How many versions of the press statement have there been? Twitter suggests 7 versions. Is there now an 8th?

I have never been so excited about Monday morning arriving 🍿

No. It has to be something like telling your barrister that you lied in court and want her to cover it up. She has a duty to the court, and to her client, and if unable to do both at the same time must resign. It not an option because the client is difficult or stupid.

What time is it due to kick off tomorrow? 10am?

And if you’re worried about forgetting to cancel, you can sign up for a £1, cancel your sub immediately and still have access until October…

I've got about 4 hours before I need to go back and archive the next version, at this rate! 😁

I haven’t caught up completely but WTF were NHS Fife thinking on Friday???

I’ve been hoping somebody senior from my Trust has been following this, properly not just reading the bbc, and has witnessed this display of Olympic level incompetence. And then thought ‘this could happen to me’. The whole NHS seems to have this changing rooms policy. All of them should be sorting it out, all of them should be ashamed of themselves.

Thanks, both.

I think there are actually only 3 (ah - maybe 4!) versions of the statement @GardeningEconomist - the original, one still with the objectionable paragraph about SexMatters and a disclaimer that they weren't blaming them, then one without the para but still with the disclaimer. (And now one with only one copy of the disclaimer? One I haven't seen anyway, sigh...) However, one of the places where they are archived saves a version when asked to do so, even if nothing has changed, which causes confusion.

still 3 too many according to Michael Foran incoming associate prof of Law at Oxford

NHS Fife - just stop digging.

I wouldn't have a clue what the GMC will make of it.

Or what they would make of him being willing to treat actual females who request single sex care.

Or his claims to be a biological female. Surely that requires a wee bit more training?

Will be interesting to see what they eventually say.

I went to work on Thursday up to date with the threads, then it’s all gone downhill for me and it took last night and all day today, and a full 10pack of Tunnocks tea cakes to catch back up. Whilst I can’t wait for tomorrow’s instalments I’m dreading he hours I’ll have to spend catching up again after work.

A massive thank you to everyone keeping those of us unable to follow in real time up to date, and to everyone sharing articles.