NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

So she's not a descendant at all, as prh47bridge also pointed out. It's her husband's family who have have done OK for themselves, like the Trevelyans.

Either way, that's just anecdotally interesting, I respect that JR is doing the job she is employed to do the same as I respect NC for doing hers.

On the subject of peaking: I peaked myself by trying to get my head around the contradiction that it’s progressive to believe that sexual stereotypes are both harmful, yet also the only correct way to demonstrate your sex - trans identifying men in short skirts and fishnets, and trans identifying women with laughable moustaches.

That’s why I’m so interested in this case which appears to highlight so clearly the difference in behaviour between two people in conflict: a real professional woman and a man who seems to be doing his best to behave the way he thinks a woman would.

That the good Dr U saw fit to write notes about imaginary future crimes and log them in a formal complaint shows the confidence he had in The System at NHS Fife. Not one jot of "ooh, wonder if they'll actually check this happened or not" went through his mind, as he was so confident he'd just be believed - as Kate Searle so amply evidenced.

A fish rots from the head.

Though I have to say, "Earl Russell" sounds like the name of a reggae singer more than a Liberal Democrat parliamentarian.

That is a very good point about smearing and denigrating Sex Matters, but not mentioning the very partisan relationships that JR clearly has in her personal life. Almost as though some people are better at separating their professional lives from their personal beliefs than others.

The Fife people really do need to stop treading in shit and then walking it all over their own carpet.

Isn’t the Good Law Project heavily involved in other trying to sway public opinion and funding and supporting legal cases with its own legal team? (Obviously, yes). Does NHS Fife object to that too?

Why can’t they just label the gender neutral toilets as All Inclusive WCs. The Uni need to get a grip on this.

I’ve not been following these threads as much as I was in Feb due to being on holiday but my god am I looking forward most to hearing what Kate Searle has to say for herself. Judge, jury and executioner in one email. And they then tried to cover it up.
and not one of them will pay for this. Heads won’t roll.

And thank goodness for tribunal tweets and the thread unroll app.

I’ve checked out the local planning department for plans re any applications and there’s nothing. I agree a plan is important just to see what other areas could have been used by Upton. I’m hoping NC has one to present

Also most paywalled articles (or statements from NHS Fife) can be viewed in full by dropping the URL into https://archive.ph/ This has useful secondary effect of saving an archived copy, so that tampering by the hyperactive squirrels can be detected.

Just catching up with the Leibnitz v. Tunnocks controversy - I asked a Tunnocks for its views on Knowledge, Truth and Ideas or the Logical Conception of Substance - still waiting😏

The Leibnitz, however, point out that not only was it half-covered in chocolate-y deliciousness, but it was also very relevant to the tribunal as its doctoral dissertation was “On Perplexing Cases”.

But what swung it for the Leibnitz was ease of dunking.

Because all anybody ever does at work is keep an eagle eye out for what toilets people are going in and out of 🙄

If the trans people are openly saying this, isn't that already outing them as trans, assuming people didn't already know?

So now TRSOH are ignoring Philip K Dick's warnings and are trying to make 'pre-crime' a thing. They appear to really want to live in an authoritarian dystopia.

There was some speculation on x last week as to whether JR was the KC who told JoMo FWS would definitely lose the supreme court case.

I seem to remember her making a comment that the break in proceedings would not be good for Sandie's case - which seemed to suggest that she thought FWS would lose.

@Chrysanthemum5 out of curiosity are the gender neutral loos single occupancy?

I seek these out as easier using a menstrual cup...damn everyone must think am trans! 🤪

I though I was at the top of the mountain ⛰️ with Rachel McKinnon standing on a potiem, collecting medals with two women either side of him.
It looked like a F1 photo from back in the day with scantily clad sexy ladies.
It confirmed to me in no way should men be ing womens sports. Size difference, strength difference, just defeats the point of separate categories.

But I couldn't see the harm in a man in a dress. The Dr Upton came along, with changing rooms and stuff.
Then I peeked again at the thought of men in women's changing rooms, inc sports.

'Gender Neutral' toilets have to be single occupancy, lockable, completely enclosed and contain everything like washing facilities, bins etc.
They are officially called 'universal' toilets.
They can't be any old toilet re-badged.

I've always liked this image

I've used them when it's more convenient, e.g. women's is busy or too far away. Mostly when attending events at daughter's uni. I don't really care if people think I'm trans 😄 But I doubt anybody is actually noticing or caring either way.

KS is on Tuesday. Both teams agreed that there was no need to call VV.

Whilst JR has never publicly stated her beliefs, her husband is clearly in the TWAW camp and there is plenty to indicate that she is a true believer.

NHS Fife's ridiculous statement suggests they still believe the line they are pushing and haven't noticed that the documentary evidence and their own witnesses have undermined their case. They seem to think it is just TT and others misreporting the case. They probably think their interests and Upton's are still perfectly aligned. If JR is a true believer, it wouldn't surprise me if she thinks the same.

This. I also find it incredibly concerning that a young doctor, newly qualified, immediately started pretending to be a woman and causing trouble in his FIRST JOB as a qualified doctor. Actively seeking out offence and misgendering and so-called transphobia, after choosing to do something he knew was controversial - adopt a trans identity. Rocking up at your first graduate job - a job that many would kill for, every year 1000s are turned down for med school in this country, after prepping for it since 15/16 - and instead of head down, getting on with the job, looking for offence and making notes on people that had worked there for years. That's sociopathic behaviour no?

These are the generation of new doctors that did much of their training throughout covid arent they? I cant help wondering if that has contributed to this incredibly self centred tantrum-like behaviour in a new doctor, instead of focusing on being a doctor and helping people.

Btw Michael Foran has posted that he'll go live around 5pm at https://knowingius.org/ . You'll need a subscription but there's a 7 days free and then £5/month option...