NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #32

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31

I’m finally able to keep up! 😂

Jinx

Thanks @nauticant I managed to get all caught up! Having to work is pesky :-)

'And please let me know if anyone has experience in managing hate incident / harassment' [because I sure as hell don't have a fucking clue what I'm doing]

Sorry but that email really was out of order, I can honestly barely believe anyone would have been stupid enough to send it.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread- I wanted to quote but have lost it- a comment from DU about ’my people’. Something about persecution?

I was shocked at another layer of appropriation, that a well educated young white man could claim that kind of persecution for ‘his people’.

I saw a tweet where he said he'd be busy & would do it later.

Michael Foran @michaelpforan

Will be busy just after the Tribunal today so hope to do a recap either later on this evening or some time over the weekend. Will let everyone know when I have a time.
2:31 PM · Jul 18, 2025

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1887509873371295838

Haters hate ...

Thank you for your contribution.

That’s the one @nauticant ! Thank you. Is it just me reading it as being so offensive?

Oh I completely agree that he was trouble and shouldn't have been making notes. Just for me, WHERE he made notes wasn't the problem.

Whilst I know lots of transwomen (and transmen to be fair), thoroughly enjoy beefing up the stereotypes, I don't think that was Upton's main motivation. There weren't enough people there for a start.

Personally, I believe it's because transactivation relies on pretending that these men are vulnerable. There's no other way to justify them in women's spaces, other than being a vulnerable minority, who are constantly attacked, and therefore need the special treatment denied to men in general.

His defence was I'm so vulnerable so I need to be in there, and because I'm so vulnerable, this is petrifying.

We see it all the time. Trans people are constantly told to look out for hordes of raging (fictitious) terfs, hellbent on their persecution to the point of literal genocide.

I wasn't watching the beginning of the trial, but I was reading the transcripts. And there was nothing vulnerable or scared about Upton. Sneering and arrogant were the words used to describe him, over and over.

To be honest, I've read so many things over the past decade from trans activists that are off-the-scale-hatstand that that one doesn't seem that noteworthy.

Why was my post removed? I stated a biological fact, trans women are men.

Off to have a quick chat with MNHQ...

I really hope so. I have always found Information governance people to be very precise and particular. Given what people have said about recruitment difficulties, I hope that makes him feel safe to show his best self in court, whatever JR would like him to say. Someone who goes rogue on principle would be great!

I noticed the "my people" thing.

Personally I would prefer not to be associated with Isla Bryson and the rest of the rogues' gallery.

[obvious "not all trans" disclaimer here]

I have no inside information, but my money would be on SP.

Caught up.

For now!

Praise be to Sandie Peggie, NC and their funders.

To paraphrase: she will not go quietly into that 'kind' night.

I'll buy the book when it is published

I read TT first and then got a day's remote observation before we were all kicked out. It was exactly as sneering and supercilious as I think you would have expected!

I am just catching up after a busy afternoon and evening, but I would like to comment on this.

IB’s advice that Upton could use the female changing room is what created this situation.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. My recollection from the earlier February hearing was that Upton himself told Kate Searle that he had used the women's facilities in earlier placements and he assumed he would go on doing so. KS then happily rubber stamped it. I don't recall at what stage Isla Bumba got brought in. Certainly as far as I remember Upton didn't go along to anyone to tell them he was transitioning and which facility could he use?

I have a similar recollection@Peregrina.

Yes. I think it was a catalogue of errors and its possible that different parties independently came to same conclusion but DU said in his evidence in chief:

JR: Describe AE induction
DU: Two days at the beginning of Aug, mix of familiarizing us with dept and revision of managing presentations

and

JR: When did you use women's
DU: From Aug 2nd, when I started working at Fife, in line with previous jobs and rights of trans people

I've been finding Michael Foran's guidance through this really helpful and I did wonder what had happened to him last night when he didn't pop up. I really, really hope he was in the pub getting plastered.

Definitely looking forward to hearing his take on Friday's antics at the ET.

Claimant has made case, arent we on Defense witnesses now?