NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #32

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31

I’ve just caught up, have mostly been an observer but have followed very closely. Thank you to those on this thread and the others who have done such stellar work on keeping the rest of us up to date on things! This seems to get crazier by the day. Well there’s no ‘seems’ about it really is there? Another day, another ‘wtf?’ just about covers it!

I will make a donation to Sex Matters asap.

And FWIW I work in medical management and would hire Sandie immediately if she ever fancied relocating. Suspect there’s a lot of us that would spark a bidding war over such an incredible woman.

This isn’t actually true. And using a different email address also isn’t the cloak of disguise you’re presenting: your IP address is the thing that matters here. People are prosecuted for not paying the licence fee and or fine.

I wouldn’t want people to find themselves on the wrong side of the law because of well-intentioned but inaccurate advice on MN.

They could do. But this is now a PR disaster with a national profile and NHS Fife have utterly committed themselves for ideological reasons. The people at the top now making the decisions can see that their jobs are at risk. If NHS Fife walk away they can't predict what remedies the Employment Tribunal might impose.

This isn't like not defending a £500 claim for repairs to a second hand car you've sold.

I am trying to wrap my head around why NHS Fife decided to put out that statement.

Organisation wise, this would have to has come from the top with approval from CEO and very likely chair of the Board. I have been turning it over, but I cannot see how they could come to a conclusion that making any statement,never mind one as bonkers as this, at this particular juncture would be helpful to them.

Even without the possibly accidental implication they were inciting violence, the content about SM was totally unhinged. Whinging about campaigning organizations campaigning is not a good look.

All they have done is draw even more attention to this case, and demonstrate that the rot goes all the way from the shop floor to the top. Reflective practice is not going to cut it this time, multiple heads will need to roll.

An organization I used to work for for into some bother in this arena. They made some unwise statements, but as soon as the inevitable back lash came and the Board got involved, that genie was put firmly back in the bottle never to come out again.

One of the Boards role is to support and guide reputation management. There would usually be someone on there with a comms background, who should be able to provide guidance and advice. The Board is also massively culpable here. I am struggling to think of another example where an organization has been shown to be so inept.

Yes. Nicely sums up the entirely illogical reasoning that underpins the whole of the NHS Fife defence.

I was saying earlier that they have edited it so much that the only two mention of Sex Matters on it are now like this:

* NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above.

Clearly some lawyers got on the phone to them quickish yesterday afternoon...

I wonder of this is the final, final version. Referencing Sex Matters without there being anything in the statement about Sex Matters is just nonsensical.

I agree that some lawyers were burning their phone lines yesterday.

We don't, but it could be either side. The respondents could want him to give evidence that backs up Upton's account if such evidence exists. The claimant would definitely want him to give evidence that undermines Upton's account if such evidence exists. That would undermine Upton's credibility and there would be no need for the claimants to recall him. He is Fife's witness. It would be up to them to recall him if they thought he would be able to offer a credible explanation for the discrepancy between his statements and the phone evidence.

Contempt of court is not uncommon. Nor is defamation. But it’s quite rare to have a go at both in the same statement. And from what other posters have said, Fife were also involved in a data breach. Were they going for the hat trick?

Guarantee that there's some legal bods in Fife today sinking a stiff whisky and thinking 'oh for fuck's sake'.

The proceedings would benefit hugely from that person bursting in to make a dramatic citizen's arrest after every misgendering.

If you go to TT's Substack pages you will find all the transcripts from February plus links to press coverage. It's worth reading Upton's evidence to appreciate the jaw dropping lunacy & especially his entitled supercilious tone when answering questions.

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005

Sandie has been back at her work since April 2024.

Fife never sacked her, ‘only’ suspended her (I’m assuming on full pay?) until Dr Upton’s rotation, as planned, shifted from the ED to anaesthetics.

Meanwhile over on archive.ph you'll find the following snapshots of the statement:
18 Jul 2025 14:31
18 Jul 2025 16:44
18 Jul 2025 18:21
18 Jul 2025 19:18
18 Jul 2025 20:28
19 Jul 2025 06:56

Hopefully that'll have caught all of the iterations.

That SEEN Police guy on Twitter/Bluesky is mad enough to do it.

He'd have to start with Isla Bumba, of course...

NHS Fife would be bereft of staff for starters

Sometimes people are arrested for safeguarding purposes, until they sober up or get a chance to see the crisis team. Wondering whether we should make a citizen's arrest of the Fife Board.

Delurking to say I have followed this board for years. I am in awe of the women on here and in the wider world who acting for all of us. Thank you.

Have added my thanks in the form of donations and will continue doing that today.

Separately has anyone seen Michael Foran’s latest Twitter post.

I’m so gutted. I’d drafted a post with links to the versions for easy access and then got banned by Cloudflare. What’s that about?

So sorry folks I can’t repost but I think I found why they name checked Sex Matters. Will try to post the link …

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-overthrow-the-lanyardocracy/

Spectator headline

Great to see some common sense in media

Nobody expects a citizens arrest for misgendering a la Monty python Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

New statements to expect from NHS Fife over the weekend and beyond:

To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that the local bookgroup have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above

To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that the stray cats of Istanbul, or any other stray cats, have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above

To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that the CEO and HR lead from Astronomer who got busted at that Coldplay gig have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above

To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that either Santa or his elves have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above

Does anyone there actually do their job with any degree of competence? Or do they just suspend all the good ones?

Many thanks. 🙂 I'll do some reading over the weekend.

oh now I got it back... ignore the above

I've been getting confused about the Fife statement and all its versions:
Statement on the Recommencement of the Employment Tribunal

The current version is here:
https://www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

The Wayback Machine has 3-4 different snapshots of the Fife Press Statement on 18th July 2025 timed at:

14.35 Original
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250718143138/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250718143138/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

17.32 Website crashed/Cloudflare image
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250718175103/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250718175103/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

19.02 Revisions 1?
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250718190235/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250718190235/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

20.41 Revision 2?
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20250718204156/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20250718204156/www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

I read the first one about 16.50 (as soon as NC mentioned it in the Tribunal hearing). I assume that is the one that Big Sonde was given a printed copy of and will form the basis of any judgement after the weekend. It mentioned Sex Matters in a curious way and then in the next paragraph mentioned threats against NHS staff which appeared to conflate the two. Also it seemed to call into question NC's ability to act on behalf of SP due to her position as Chair in Sex Matters and also SM's campaigning activity and statements about the case - which NHS Fife seemed to object to...

Looking at the NHS Fife press release site there is another post from 16th July referring directly to an opinion piece by SM - suggesting this is what has upset them?
Statement - Opinion piece regarding the ongoing employment tribunal
https://www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-opinion-piece-regarding-the-ongoing-employment-tribunal/

Copied in full here for the record - I don't know about any of you but I would never have noticed this SM statement if it weren't for NHS Fife's carry-on with yesterday's press release:

15/07/2025

Question:
A comment is sought on the following opinion piece from a representative of Sex Matters:-

Are women allowed a male-free changing room at work? Seems like a no-brainer, but not if you have a male colleague who says he is a woman.
This is what happened to the Scottish nurse Sandie Peggie. When she objected to his presence, she was suspended from work.

Peggie brought a claim for sex discrimination and harassment against her employer, NHS Fife, and the trans-identifying male doctor who insisted on using women’s facilities. The tribunal ran out of time in February, and her hearing resumes this week.

In the meantime, there has been a seismic change in the legal landscape. In April the Supreme Court ruled that in the Equality Act, “woman” means a biological female, so a “women’s changing room” is only for females - and always was.

This sounds like a slam dunk for Nurse Peggie. But NHS Fife has given no sign that it understands employers aren’t legally allowed to let men use women’s spaces, even if those men “identify” as women. It seems set to continue defending the case, at huge public expense.

NHS Fife is not the only public body failing to follow the law as set out so clearly in the Supreme Court judgment.

Across the UK, many seem unwilling to say No to men who identify as women.
Sex Matters, the charity I work for, is planning legal action against the City of London Corporation, which runs open air swimming ponds on Hampstead Heath.

It insists the Ladies’ Pond is open to transwomen – that is, to trans-identifying men. More court cases are likely to follow.

Response:
A spokesperson for NHS Fife said: “As made clear during the earlier tribunal proceedings, NHS Fife's investigation was initiated following concerns raised about conduct, not because concerns were raised about a trans woman’s use of a locker room.

“NHS Fife did not initiate the ongoing legal proceedings and is instead defending an action brought against it. A recent statement from the Claimant’s legal representative said she is determined to continue with it, as she is entitled to do. The case concerns a number of different claims and allegations, against NHS Fife and its staff. NHS Fife is seeking to defend itself, via the appropriate legal channels.

“NHS Fife also acknowledges the Supreme Court’s ruling and other developments in this area. Work is underway across the entirety of the health board's estate (including toilets, changing and locker rooms) to identify areas where any adaptions may be required and schedule any work necessary."

[ENDS]

Edited to clean up links
Edited again - struggling with the clean up

@Charabanc @GailBlancheViola I'm not saying they did ..... is a way to get the action they didnt do into the minds of the readers alongside their name. I doubt their lawyers told them to do that, they probably told them to remove all reference in the statement and issue a separate apology.