arrested at Pride for wearing a sign saying Trans=mental illness

[happydappy2]

Montgomery Toms has been arrested for wearing a sign showing the pink & blue stripes of trans=mental illness.

Arrested. What has happened to free speech in this country?

https://x.com/ESpeaksFreely/status/1941518454466748461

Apologies for the many typos.

We have a live one here, a male poster gaslighting others; calling them rude, in order to bully us into submission. Well, not now. Not ever! And they all try to present a 'reasonable' view, don't they 'oh I don't agree with transwomen in womens spaces', 'I don't agree with kill terfs signs', but their tone-policing, gaslighting and DARVOing shows them up. Just bullies from Reddit trying to scold women into submission.

And always, always with the 'minority' argument. Despite them being corrected on this thread several times that males are not a minority. Even if they wear a dress instead of suit. Males are not any kind of minority. That's it. Full stop. In fact, males in dresses have extra power.

So you’re saying men with a trans identity are not women? So they should not use women’s spaces then should they?

I wonder if not fully believing means that some people feel they have to then show support other ways. With one way being to censure the discussion that others have.

Hahaha brilliant! We've arrived at the end point where you have decided I am a man because you don't like my views! 😂

I'm a woman. We've reached peak stupidity here.

I don't agree with any of that.

I think it's quite gross you believe the mere existence of trans women is misogynistic. I see others here believe the same and I'm honestly shocked they're proud to brand a whole group as misogynistic just for existing. I would call that transphobia.

You won't convince me to see it this way. We're, all wasting our time here.

Wearing the T-shirt with the slogan seems fairly provocative and borderline shitty. Maybe not borderline. I wouldn't have visited the people I knew who were being treated for schizophrenia, anorexia, depression, bipolar disorder, alcoholism (5 different people - actually more than 5 over the decades) wearing a T-shirt pointing out that their conditions were mental illnesses.

But I would know that they were, just as I would know that ADHD or ASD can lead people on those spectrums to interpret the world in ways that make no objective sense. And that people recovering from PTSD can act in irrational and sometimes dangerous (to themselves or others) was, as can adolescents.

Believing in 'gender' as thing that humans should conform to is clearly a form of mental illness, whether you adopt a gender congruent with your sex or not.

I am increasingly coming to see the tendency to not be honest about that is really bad for individuals, particularly the young.

I also see enthusiastic public display and celebration of sexual fetish as bad for society.

But very profitable, all of it, for pharma, and plastic tat manufacturers, and planet-wrecking fast fashion, and sociologists and other logrolling academics, and therapists, and dodgy lawyers, and the entertainment industry.

Oh we've got the full bingo card here too! Scolding, Reddit, DARVO. Brilliant. You've entertained me this morning!

Your posts to me have been nothing but rude from the start, you called me abusive just because I didn't agree with you and now you're calling me a man. You're angry that I actually have reasonable views because it what, makes me look reasonable and you don't like it? Odd.

It's not bullying or scolding into submission to want people to stop using slurs is it. You know that.

But whatever, enjoy your tantrum if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, "I can't speak for that poster, but we are male exclusionary. Not trans exclusionary. We don't exclude trans men. So are we only 50% trans exclusionary?
It's about excluding males. Not 'trans' people. It's MERF."

is sooooo rude.

The second post to you: "Excluding males from female spaces is what feminism is all about, and it is the correct form of feminism, not the wrong one.
Feminists have never called for the death of gay people (or trans for that matter). Unlike trans who have called for the rapes and skinning and burning and various other deaths of feminists."

Is also soooo rude.

There is where receipts came in. I wasn't rude. You lied. And the evidence is in this thread.

This is your first ever post to me. You called me prejudiced, for no reason. That, is rude. Here is the receipt: "Well TERF is a reality but posters a re claiming it is a slur.
You can't have it both ways.
Pro trans is not the same as anti woman, but I'm not going to have that debate with someone so clearly prejudiced."

Your second reply to me: "The way you parrot my own words back to me instead of having your own and are clearly very angry and absolutist shows you don't have any grasp of the nuances in different peoples opinions."

Was really aggressive and uncalled for.

Well I don’t think that was a sensible thing to do and if you really think it’s a mental illness then pride isn’t the place for that signage is it? Because if it’s a mental illness it should be treated with compassion and proper support rather than what could be taken as jeering at people with mental illnesses. It’s not the victims you should be waving that sigh at but the medical profession/ pharmaceutical industry.

A male person who claims to be an actual woman and gets upset when brought back to reality is acting as if women have no meaningful or substantial existence in their own right. Taking up this sort of position is certainly not respectful.

I'm sure there are plenty of transitioned men who know they are male, though, and don't spend their entire time trying to force their own definition of themselves onto others.

Men who like women 'identify with' them, not 'as' them.

I am perpetually puzzled by people who can’t see the inherent sexism in gender ideology

literally the central tenet is ‘all women feel like this, all men feel like that’. If that’s not sexism what is it?

I wouldn't have visited the people I knew who were being treated for schizophrenia, anorexia, depression, bipolar disorder, alcoholism (5 different people - actually more than 5 over the decades) wearing a T-shirt pointing out that their conditions were mental illnesses.

The difference is there is no politics involved in those things. Saying trans isn’t a mental illness is a political cause that has received significant traction, with the WHO and other organisations falling into the trap of going along with such a claim. So if saying trans isn’t a mental illness is a political movement with activism behind it, it’s legitimate, in my view, to counter that claim with the perfectly reasonable valid opinion that trans is a mental illness.

And is it shitty? Maybe. But the political movement to remove trans as being a mental illness has led to some pretty shitty outcomes, particularly stemming from the idea that it’s actually an innate identity instead. The medicalisation of children, for example, is based on a child’s declared gender identity is their innate being, not a signifier of mental illness. So I don’t view it as shitty behaviour to make a clear statement of what we are actually dealing with, instead of some false claim of a civil rights movement.

@NotBadConsidering, I agree that shittiness is not a one-way street, and with @midgetastic about blame lying with the medico-pharma complex. And that young people, particularly young women, who have been suckered to adopting a gender are victims (as well as mentally ill, just like their formerly anorexic aunties).

I just question whether the way to have that conversation is via T-shirt slogans at Pride events.

You don’t seem to understand how others can view the concept of removing the unique language that is needed to enable laws and policy to be enacted is an act of misogyny.

Yet you have stated that the people who you describe as transwomen are not the same as women. You said, “a trans woman and a woman are two different things.” There are some who would declare you transphobic for that view.

You don’t see the incoherence in your stated views. Yet you resort very quickly in berating and censuring others and hyperbole. Just in this post you use words like ‘gross’ and ‘transphobia’ while expressing your ‘shock’.

I don’t think you have anything other than the emotionally manipulative tactics that you have showed us here. Certainly you haven’t offered any thought out or logically sound contributions to the discussion.

I know where you’re coming from but I don’t see Pride as being equivalent to a place where fragile mental health states exist like anorexia and so on. If someone went to an anorexia sufferers conference wearing a t-shirt saying “just eat a fucking sandwich!” that would be majorly shitty.

But someone was hosting a Pro-Ana conference and someone turned up to protest the promotion of anorexia as something that isn’t a mental illness and something to strive for, and was wearing a “anorexia is a mental illness” t-shirt I don’t think that would be equivalently shitty.

Pride is like a Pro-Ana conference, the trans equivalent: convincing young people they have an innate gender identity and their body is wrong not their mental health and any pushback on that movement is good IMO.

What is wrong here is not that this man was arrested, although I hope this was getting him away from the march and he wont actually be prosecuted - but that other people with worse signs were not arrested. Free speech does not include incitement to violence.

We’re not wasting our time. If you think you’re wasting your time that’s up to you to deal with. No one is forcing you to post disingenuous nonsense.

This. And I can’t take any of what they say particularly seriously.

I think the sign was probably misguided and it's hard to see what the point was - you're not going to convince anybody of anything by invoking mental illness in this way. And while I know it's not the same thing, few people would defend a "Gay = mental illness" sign at a Pride event (or anywhere else). (I know, gender dysphoria, etc, but I think many people would see this as the same thing and it's not the way to win hearts and minds.)

He shouldn't be arrested or charged with anything, though.

I agree it is not wasting our time.

Because there are still eyes on this thread and what readers are seeing is a live demonstration of the emotionally manipulative tactics that are being used across threads and in real life to get people to comply in acting as if they support someone’s philosophical belief about their identity which is a belief that doesn’t reflect material reality. The replies to carefully laid out arguments and posts are dismissed with name calling, shaming and no cogent reason why the arguments supposedly fail.

I suspect that many readers will be following along and thinking why isn’t it misogynistic? why has this been called transphobic? As we have seen over time, women reading threads like this or having discussions like this start asking the questions which lead to them looking for evidenced answers.

You've insulted others repeatedly throughout the whole thread.

In this era where anything trans is celebrated I think it's very much needed that people remind others that it is a mental illness. Not something to be celebrated. Young people are being harmed by this ideology. Women's rights are being dismantled. Also T has nothing whatsoever to do with LGB which are sexualities.