Why is anti-trans so important?

[Elizabethbd]

So, I will preface this with saying that I’m not in the UK, and my country does not yet have the kind of anti-trans debate as there is in the English speaking world.

So, I have a hard time understanding why this is such an important question to many women.

Surely there are women’s issues that affect a larger part of society.

I’m thinking rape and violence towards women, homelesness, sex trafficking and honour killings. Why are these issues not more important and worthy of attention, as they affect so many more women than those who come into contact with trans women (or men)?

I mean, you're on one of the better-known anti-trans forums - you only have to glance to see how much interest in actual issues that affect women and girls. Hell, the huge vote and win to decriminalise abortion wasn't even mentioned on here until hours afterwards..and the 'feminism chat' is pretty dead.

Fact is that successive governments and the right wing media are very happy with trans moral panic as they can pretend that they're actually helping women, whilst the same issues over rape/DV convictions, over hormonal care, over childcare, child sexualisation etc etc remain..or in some cases have gotten worse.

It's honestly depressing and without our government having a pikachu moment, it's only going to get worse.

if the government continues to defend women's right to privacy from men, and to the dignity and safety that single sex spaces afford for women, then I'm all good with that.

I'm not sure what a pikachu moment is I'm afraid.

Your thread is missing you.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5358888-why-is-this-subforum-so-intent-on-removing-voices-that-dont-agree

As explained to another poster it's bad manners to start a thread and not return to it, it makes people think you are posting in bad faith.

The only thing this forum is "anti-trans" about is "anti-trans-people-trampling-over-women's-rights".

If you're not anti that then I assume you're the kind of person we couldn't have counted on to help us campaign for the right to vote at the beginning of the 20th century.

Give your head a wobble.

Many transwomen are straight men. Their erotic life is focussed on female bodies to the extent that they try to have one. But also still want intimate encounters with women's bodies. Did you imagine trans is the same thing as gay? It isn't.

Uh.... Because men are 50% of the population and commit 98% of the sexual crimes therefore they are the biggest threat to me.

It's ok to admit you're out of your depth. It's even more impressive to then use that opportunity to enrich your knowledge for next time.

I personally was on at least 2 different threads on the abortion issue in the days leading up to it. I lost COUNT of the number of threads at the time of the Irish vote a few years ago.

I love how an entire community of women are so easily dismissed as 'they only care about trans issues"

For the avoidance of doubt, I can assure you that I have been on many many threads on the issue of rape and DV. Don't even get me started on the number of threads I've been on that are ranting about the deep seated misogyny that surrounds childbirth and women's health issues.

Child sexualisation - I acknowledge I haven't been on many. But then I'm not sure what you're referring to? Children wearing clothes that say, "bite me" or children who are trafficked into sex work? Very different issues, neither of which I'd refer to as "child sexualisation" myself. [shrug]

And while I'm as terfy as they come, it's the issue of violence against women and girls that you're more likely to see me out marching about, campaigning about locally, writing to my MP about or sending funds to help. For others, it might be sex trafficking or poor support for women's healthcare. AS well as being terfs.

Absolutely.

oh thats good

admitting that you are out of your depth on mumsnet…well done you

Go back on your harry potter thread you cowardy custard.

Yeah you go ahead and enrich your knowledge

go you!

The whole toilet thing is a red herring they're currently focusing on that so as to distract women such as yourself, who are willing to refer to themselves as cis women instead of just a women, from the fact that your rights and protections under the law are being taken off you.
By the fact that you've referred to a bathroom, it sounds like you're from the USA, so maybe you don't have any laws to protect your rights so you haven't anything to loose.
But there are plenty of young women athletics in your country who have lost the right to complete in a women's category because men are allowed to compete in them too. They're losing out on prizes, titles, medals and scholarships all because women 'don't seem the harm' in letting men pretend to be a women.

Go ahead and do that then please.

Yeah, I agree with this completely. I see so many people going down the "but WHY would you have an issie with this [insert picture of appropriately feminine looking transwomen] in the batrhoom with you? Can't you SEE how awful it would be for her to be forced into the men's toilets."

BUt that's just ONE thing. It's EVERYWHERE. In women's short lists. In women's sport. In women's workplaces. In women's healthcare.

I know a man who not only spouts all the "be kind" stuff, his view is that really, we should stop any sort of segregation or data collection by sex. It shouldnt' be relevant.

Easy for him to say. But I WANT to know ho wmany women CEOs there are vs how many men called "John". I WANT to know how much funding is given to men's sexual health vs women's sexual health. I'm fascinated to see differences in how men experience that healthcare. I 100% want to know about the gender pay gap.

And when that CEO called John decides he's actually a woman called Johanna, he skews all of this data. His company's pay gap gets smaller. The percentage of women CEOs goes up. I don't even KNOW how the account for any of his health issues in data.

I am so so so so so tired of being a woman and being told, whether it's about trans issues or work issues or pay issues or healthcare issues or just every-bloody-day sexism issues that I am too sensitive and should just accept all those supposed "good intentions" of men.

But if you have a man and a trans woman standing in front of you, neither is 50% of the population.

Each of them is one individual person, and statistically, the one who is pretending to be a woman is more likely to be a danger to you than the one who isn't.

Exactly this.

Americans are so lacking in self awareness.

Like, maybe, if they had any, they would think, "Hmm, well, the feminist movement hasn't been such a roaring success in our own country, especially not compared to the UK, so maybe instead of telling UK based feminists that they are doing feminism wrong, we should shut up and learn from them."

The whole toilet thing is a red herring

I'd suggest that's accurate. I have a suspicion the toilet argument is simply an obfuscation to distract us. Trans-women have never been a collective threat to us, but a lot of furious energy is being spent - needlessly and foolishly - on compartmentalising and then demonising trans-women.

It's pernicious, it's divisive, and it's fundamentally - and I'd argue morally - wrong.

You still haven’t answered how you and the rest of us transphobes can tell the difference between an innocent trans woman and a man with nefarious intent?

Americans are so lacking in self awareness.

<checks MN guidelines on sweeping, pejorative statements>

Every single transwoman is biologically male. That fact alone means that they should not use single-sex spaces for female people. It doesn't matter how well they pass, if they are lovely, or if they are a criminal. The clarification of the EA2010 makes it clear that they should use male facilities or unisex ones.

Every single transwoman who is a decent person will follow the law because that is what decent people do.

Men have always been a collective threat to women. That's why we have certain women only spaces.

Tranwomen are men therefore they too have always been a collective threat to woman. That's why they shouldn't be in women's single sex spaces.

Any comment on the point being made?

What exactly do Americans have to teach the rest of the world about feminism, other than how not to do it?

If we all wish hard enough do you think at some point in the far far far off future someone will answer this because I don't know about you but I'm sick of asking!

Why can no one who thinks transwomen should have access to women only spaces tell us how a transwoman is less of a threat than a man man?