Why is anti-trans so important?

[Elizabethbd]

So, I will preface this with saying that I’m not in the UK, and my country does not yet have the kind of anti-trans debate as there is in the English speaking world.

So, I have a hard time understanding why this is such an important question to many women.

Surely there are women’s issues that affect a larger part of society.

I’m thinking rape and violence towards women, homelesness, sex trafficking and honour killings. Why are these issues not more important and worthy of attention, as they affect so many more women than those who come into contact with trans women (or men)?

'Hysterical'

Just chuck in shrill and emotional and you've got the misogyny triad!

<sighs excessively>

Hysterical screeching?
Hmm, going to hurt my vocal chords, but if you insist...

<beetle, in the throes of a full-blown meltdown—wings flailing, antennae all akimbo, eyes wide as saucers.>

Now, is there any chance of you returning to your thread that you have ignored since just after you started it?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5360731-harry-potter-and-the-ongoing-spat

Why don’t you hop on over to your Harry Potter thread and give examples of JKR’s ‘horrendous behaviour’ as you’ve stated.

Are these visitors under the impression that we’ve not been reading their arguments for over a decade now, and that’s how we “educated ourselves” into organising to defend the hard-won rights they’ve been so blithely throwing under a bus?

Maybe the visitors should have tried lurking for a few years. It’s amazing what you learn by listening to people.

I guess another question is why is 0.5% of the population so important that the sex class of the other 99.5% of the population is meaningless.

A couple of examples of why sex is important.

Health care- a health report may say there is a reduction in women receiving treatment for breast cancer but a surge of women getting treatment for prostate cancer. This may affect funding and research.

Crime - suddenly a massive surge in female rapists and murderers when we know these are predominantly not our crimes. This skews statistics and is very traumatising when a rape victim is having to describe what her attacker did with her penis. Women have been vilified in court for not using the correct pronouns for their rapists.

Safety - confused dementia patients being provided with intimate care by someone who is clearly male wearing female clothing and a female name tag. A very vulnerable person having no agency over their intimate care as they can't specify that the female nurse they requested doesn't have a penis. Someone on an NHS ward was told by the NHS she couldn't have been raped on the ward as there were no males on the ward.... cctv proved that the attack did happen and it was the trans woman in the bed opposite who did it.

Women who lose funding and sports scholarships as they lose their podium places.

The grace hopper recruitment event meant as a career builder for women in tech but open to people being either women or identifying as women had 40% male attendance. This was an event to boost opportunities for women in a male industry where only 24% of women hold jobs.

Just a few examples. It isn't about being anti trans. It is about saying that in some circumstances sex matters.

yeah you should really tell your TRA mates to calm the fuck down and stop threatening women with being punched, decapitated, raped or dying in a grease fire

or are you seriously suggesting that the side that threatens all the above is the one at risk from women?

do me a fucking favour

It is perfectly possible to see issues with the current trans debate and think that there are problems which need to be addressed without being “anti-trans”. Polarising language like that muddies things he water.

No it doesn’t at all. If the OP is genuine and there really are countries where this debate is not particularly prominent then a flippant answer to a question posed to educate the OP is stupid and doesn’t leave the anti T sounding very reasonable.

every opportunity to educate should be seized. Not replied to with sarcasm

The rudeness is off the hook.

Get a username and immediately start shitposting and starting threads. Then wonder why they get pelters.

Maybe that's how it works on the reddits idk, but on every forum I've been on in almost 30 years online, you read a few things and pick up the vibe before putting out posts and certainly before starting threads.

Kids these days

If this doesn't apply to you OP, sorry. I'm more generally annoyed than specifically at you, or this thread. All the best in any case

Do you have a source for this? I can't find it. Regardless I mean African American people have a higher incarceration rate in America but its not down to them all being bad eggs, its often true that persecuted and vulnerable groups of people on the margins end up incarcerated

It is generally understood that H sapiens shares about 98% of genetic material with other apes. I have not seen an argument that men and women share different proportions of the 2%. Yet human societies across time and space have insisted on setting up women to be almost a different species by imposing rules on dress and behaviour, by teaching that women aren't as intelligent - by not allowing them education, by teaching that they are a subordinate creation (current Catholic teaching). They have made that fraction of 2% do an incredible amount of work, far more than the 2% itself does in separating us from the orangs, the bonobos, etc. And because that fraction can't do it by itself, they make artificial divisions over hair length, finger nails, and lippy. It's notable that when western women stooped adopting those markers, that's when the dragged up, camp imitators stepped up to show us how to woman properly.
We aren't going to play any more. We are fully human, just like men (or I think so, for the purposes of argument) and we aren't going back in the dolls house. We are going to be in the offices, the hospitals as doctors, the laboratories, Whatever places engineers are, contractors, professors, aviators, no boundaries.
It is very strange that some men seem to want to emulate women of the old diminshed sort, and claim that they are truly women as we are not, because they can bat false eyelashes, and hoick up false tits, and not do a stroke of real human work, as real women have done through the millenia. No, they would damage their nails.
They show their real nature by shouting abuse, making death threats, and making it impossible for real women to use spaces made for them.
It's really just to get us back in "our place" And if we let them, we've lost for the whoile human race, not just women.
I keep having as an ear worm a song, or part of one, from 7 brides for 7 brothers, written at the beginning of the 50s. The character is made to sing that the Sabine women in Roman times said "some day, women folk will have rights".
when he doesn't believe in them. So in 1954, someone couild raise that issue as a joke. That recently.
We have make suree we keep whar we have won and not let the trans brigade trad us down again. No more Sobbin women.

"I came here in bad faith to get some screenshots and start a bun fight. Having plopped and dropped I'm off"

The answer to your 'very clever trick question' is very simple.

This is a feminism board - that means centring women.

Its not a board for being pro-trans or anti-trans. Or trans anything.

I hope satisfies your desire to show how terrible MN is.

Sobbin' women

Love a bit of seven brides for seven brothers.

"The pass is open the pass is open"

Trans women are a tiny minority not men.
I don't look like a man but I look like I could be a trans woman I'm almost 6ft always been big build I wear my hair long but PCOS and my dad's large nose mean I do have masculine features. I do get odd looks in bathrooms since I appear large and imposing, doesn't really bother me though but I could see how it could impact others.

One source is the Freedom of Information requests to the Ministry of Justice, which revealed that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences, the breakdown was:
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisoners collected 177 sentences between them.

According to that FOI 197 prisoners in total were transgender.

So almost 50% of transgender prisoners were convicted of sexual offences. The proportion in the total prison population is 21%.

It’s not @Elizabethbd in real life. Online forums are anonymous so people express more extreme views plus some people may be deliberately provocative.

All the issues you mentioned are very important whereas whether a natal man who has transitioned is in a toilet is of not important to most women day to day for two reasons, one is that they are no threat and two is it’s very very rare, I’ve encountered it twice and I live in liberal Bristol.

there are issues one being single sex spaces for vulnerable women being protected but it’s not on the forefront of our thoughts outside of Mumsnet

Trans women are men.

Trans women are a tiny minority not men??

Trans women are a tiny minority not of men

Trans women are trans women

Is the country you live in extremely misogynistic, by any chance? You have my sympathy.

Yes but still men.

Yes. But they are also men.

Regardless of what you believe their gender to be they are a tiny minority of people and I certaibly don't fear them any more than I would a woman.
For sure I fear straight men so i wouldnt like a gender neutral public toilet, but if a trans person identifying as a woman wanted to use the female bathrooms it's no skin off my nose.

It's not "anti-trans", it's pro women.

Look, it's really quite simple.

If the legal category "women" includes men who want to be women, actual women are no longer a recognised category in law.

You can't fight for the rights of a group of people that doesn't exist.

And whenever so-called feminists are focusing on "trans rights", at best this is diverting attention away from where it needs to be (on female people) and at worst it is actively undermining the rights of female people.

Take the argument for inclusion of trans women in women's spaces and women's sports, for example. Objectively, they do not meet the criteria for inclusion. They have nothing in common with those women. And objectively, their presence is detrimental to at least some of those women. There are no arguments in favour of their inclusion which do not ultimately boil down to "because they want to be included".

So ask yourself why what a small number of male people want matters more than what the majority of female people want, and how holding such an opinion can ever be compatible with being a feminist.

But how do intersex people explain why a 50 year old man with 3 kids suddenly wants to be called Donna?