Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
10
Waitingfordoggo · 15/06/2025 11:13

It’s really interesting that at no point does Jack say he is a woman (which is the justification TIMs usually give for using women’s spaces). He says he uses men’s facilities if he has men’s clothes on and women’s facilities if he has his frock and make-up on.

I mean- what? That has nothing to do with the SC ruling anyway. As far as I’m aware there has never been a law or guidance in the UK saying which toilets people should use according to what they’re wearing.

If we were going to base provisions on clothing, most women would be using the men’s as so many of us wear trousers on a day to day basis.

Jack says he is trans but I think he actually just means ‘I like wearing a range of different clothes’.

LarkspurLane · 15/06/2025 11:16

Trans Australians are Australians.
If there is no Australian toilet, they should use the one representing the sex they were born.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/06/2025 11:17

Waitingfordoggo · 15/06/2025 11:13

It’s really interesting that at no point does Jack say he is a woman (which is the justification TIMs usually give for using women’s spaces). He says he uses men’s facilities if he has men’s clothes on and women’s facilities if he has his frock and make-up on.

I mean- what? That has nothing to do with the SC ruling anyway. As far as I’m aware there has never been a law or guidance in the UK saying which toilets people should use according to what they’re wearing.

If we were going to base provisions on clothing, most women would be using the men’s as so many of us wear trousers on a day to day basis.

Jack says he is trans but I think he actually just means ‘I like wearing a range of different clothes’.

see also Travis Alabanza as I linked.

hallouminatus · 15/06/2025 11:18

Waitingfordoggo · 15/06/2025 11:13

It’s really interesting that at no point does Jack say he is a woman (which is the justification TIMs usually give for using women’s spaces). He says he uses men’s facilities if he has men’s clothes on and women’s facilities if he has his frock and make-up on.

I mean- what? That has nothing to do with the SC ruling anyway. As far as I’m aware there has never been a law or guidance in the UK saying which toilets people should use according to what they’re wearing.

If we were going to base provisions on clothing, most women would be using the men’s as so many of us wear trousers on a day to day basis.

Jack says he is trans but I think he actually just means ‘I like wearing a range of different clothes’.

In an earlier piece, Jack wrote this:
MY IDENTITY
Kellie-Jay and I would agree on one thing, which is that I am 'Not A Woman'. In her case it is because she is a gender essentialist bigot. In mine, because I was shaped by a world where it was made clear to me that womanhood could only be achieved through hormones, surgery and the pretence that you had never had a male childhood. I didn’t call myself a girl growing up, I wanted to be one, which is not the same thing.
Since I haven’t altered my body chemistry and generally don’t have to deal with sexism, I rather think of myself as a ‘failed transsexual’ by the more binary standards I grew up with. But nor do I like to consider myself male. And that was the subject of the essay I wrote for an anthology called Nothing to Hide, which I was speaking about in Sunshine library when the police arrived and caused such a stir.

CookingFatCat · 15/06/2025 11:20

That’s all you need to be a woman, full make up and a dress?
I am betting this did not happen.
Job advert “Toilet cop needed to throw women with dicks out of female toilets”

SlipperyLizard · 15/06/2025 11:20

Jack has no GRC, and it has been long acknowledged (even by the gender addled Scottish government) that no GRC = transwomen are men and transmen are women.

In the longer article Jack says he doesn’t use the men’s when “presenting femme”:

“Not out of genuine fear of violence, but more as an escape from the smirks and side-eye I’d experienced in men’s toilets in the past. If I was going to make people uncomfortable in either room, the lesser disruption had seemed to be to go with female friends whose presence could reassure other women of my non-rapist credentials.”

Budge up, women, there’s an entitled man who wants to avoid <checks notes> side eye in the men’s and he doesn’t care if it makes you uncomfortable.

For the Guardian to post such a heavily edited version of this tale (which may or may not have happened) is exactly why so many women no longer read it.

SinnerBoy · 15/06/2025 11:21

Helleofabore · Today 10:50

For those who want the twitter link to the screenshots

Thanks, I've left a comment, hope he reads it.

Does anyone know this Koko club?

FloridaCat · 15/06/2025 11:23

MoistVonL · 15/06/2025 10:39

And you read the longer version? Talk about taking one for the team, mate…

Skimmed as it is really long. JKR gets a mention.

OldCrone · 15/06/2025 11:24

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/06/2025 11:17

see also Travis Alabanza as I linked.

It also reminds me of RMW writing in his blog (when he was still at the occasional crossdresser stage) about deciding which toilet to used based on whether or not he was dressed in 'skirt and heels'.

Those stick figures on toilet doors have a lot to answer for if cross-dressing men think that they are literally about what people are wearing. On that basis, most women would be using the men's because they're wearing trousers like the figure on the door.

Have these men really not noticed that most women wear trousers at least some of the time?

JazzyJelly · 15/06/2025 11:25

I may not have been allowed to wash my hands. But the British state has made it clear that it has washed its hands of me.

If nothing else, it's such cringe-inducing writing. He reminds me of Adrian Mole.

GailBlancheViola · 15/06/2025 11:26

Jack Nicholls is a British-Australian essayist and speculative-fiction writer based in Melbourne

And this article is the acme of speculative fiction, as in a load of horse shit. If this is the best he can do I suspect his future is not bright.

Merrymouse · 15/06/2025 11:27

“Not out of genuine fear of violence, but more as an escape from the smirks and side-eye I’d experienced in men’s toilets in the past."

So no genuine fear of violence even when wearing a dress?

Is Jack a terf?

MarieDeGournay · 15/06/2025 11:30

OldCrone · 15/06/2025 09:24

We had the weeping (or crying - maybe Australians don't 'weep').

For a minute afterwards I stood crying against the wall.

I'm not sure about the gendered status of crying vs weeping in Australia, but I do know that women glow and men plunderGrin

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/06/2025 11:31

Marie 🤣

GailBlancheViola · 15/06/2025 11:32

From those screen shots Helleofabore posted:

If I am going to make people uncomfortable I choose to make women uncomfortable because they are lesser beings

Grade A misogynist.

OldCrone · 15/06/2025 11:32

“Not out of genuine fear of violence, but more as an escape from the smirks and side-eye I’d experienced in men’s toilets in the past. If I was going to make people uncomfortable in either room, the lesser disruption had seemed to be to go with female friends whose presence could reassure other women of my non-rapist credentials.”

So he wasn't scared of violence. He had the choice of either going in the women's toilet and making lots of women uncomfortable, and perhaps fearful, or being uncomfortable himself in the men's because he thought the other men might laugh at him. So being a complete self-centred arsehole, he chose to upset loads of women rather than be a bit uncomfortable himself.

Not surprised in the least. But the fact that he thinks this is 'lesser disruption'... He must think that 1 man is worth 10 or 20 women or something.

theDudesmummy · 15/06/2025 11:33

So the rationale for illegally invading women's spaces is that he can't cope with smirks? OMG Jack, how awful it would be to be smirked at (as opposed to leered at, harassed, pawed etc, all of which have happened to pretty much any woman on a night out).

Waitingfordoggo · 15/06/2025 11:33

OldCrone · 15/06/2025 11:24

It also reminds me of RMW writing in his blog (when he was still at the occasional crossdresser stage) about deciding which toilet to used based on whether or not he was dressed in 'skirt and heels'.

Those stick figures on toilet doors have a lot to answer for if cross-dressing men think that they are literally about what people are wearing. On that basis, most women would be using the men's because they're wearing trousers like the figure on the door.

Have these men really not noticed that most women wear trousers at least some of the time?

Well put. It is genuinely dismaying when you realise that a proportion of men see women as ‘humans in skirts with long hair’.

MarieDeGournay · 15/06/2025 11:36

OldCrone · 15/06/2025 11:24

It also reminds me of RMW writing in his blog (when he was still at the occasional crossdresser stage) about deciding which toilet to used based on whether or not he was dressed in 'skirt and heels'.

Those stick figures on toilet doors have a lot to answer for if cross-dressing men think that they are literally about what people are wearing. On that basis, most women would be using the men's because they're wearing trousers like the figure on the door.

Have these men really not noticed that most women wear trousers at least some of the time?

Have these men really not noticed that most women wear trousers at least some of the time?
Not even really really clever men like Eddie Izzard seem to notice that..

The Guardian - Trans Australian kicked out of toilet
Ginmonkeyagain · 15/06/2025 11:37

Ahhh. Ok KOKO. So I go there a fair bit. The bouncers are not there to "enforce toilet rules" it is a rambling multi level Victorian era venue with toilets up narrow stair cases and in odd places, they often have securityhere to keep the queues moving and make ure stairs aren't blocked. The ladies in particular get very over crowded.

I imagine the poor woman simply saw a man in the queue and directed Jack to the gents, men in dresses aren't exactly a shocking sight in London clubs. He should havr been pleased. Queues for the ladies at KOKO are epic (and there are also always issues with the basement ones blocking/being flooded 🫠)

Davros · 15/06/2025 11:37

I know Koko although I haven’t been there for some years. It had a refurbishment a few years ago and I think is a lot swankier than it used to be. There is a section that is a private members club. I’ll ask my local mates if anyone has been recently.

storminabuttercup · 15/06/2025 11:38

Hang on If he only uses the men’s when he is in men’s clothes why would he get the side eye and smirks?
I’m calling bull shit on the whole thing

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2025 11:38

Helleofabore · 15/06/2025 10:32

The use of ‘presenting feminine’ and ‘masculine pictogram’ is very telling in my opinion.

This person thinks it is all about presentation and cannot conceive that it is about the needs of having a female sexed body. So… a typical bloke interpretation of the need for female toilets.

'Masculine presenting' women (that stocky made up one for example) should use the gents then? Right?

Which toilet do I use if I'm wearing jeans? I'm confused. Silly me thinking I'm a woman.

This is the level of STOOOOOOPPPIID we are at.

Merrymouse · 15/06/2025 11:41

MarieDeGournay · 15/06/2025 11:36

Have these men really not noticed that most women wear trousers at least some of the time?
Not even really really clever men like Eddie Izzard seem to notice that..

That is a very good picture of what, IME, most women wear most of the time.

I respect anyone, male or female, who wants to make the effort to dress up (I love period drama), but most of the time women are just wearing clothes that fit their bodies and comfortable shoes.

They look female because they have female bodies, not because they are making an effort to present as a gender.