Ban the Burka? Q to Kier Starmer today-is this a good idea or not?

[happydappy2]

I know dictating to women what they can or can't wear is not popular amongst feminists. But is stating that they cannot cover their face a bad thing? There are many situations where faces have to be visible for security, ie in a bank you cannot wear a motorcycle helmet. I know some people will say if certain women cannot wear a burka they will not be able to leave their home....but isn't it better that women can just live their lives in the same way as men do, ie faces uncovered? Interested to hear others views. Personally having lived in Saudi Arabia I respected their customs when in their country but feel the UK should also be able to say, in our country, women can show their faces.

So we should liberate women by forcing them to reveal parts of thier body that they are not comfortable revealing?

I remember when they banned the burka in France and you had big burly police officers forcing women to remove thier clothes. That certainly didn't look like liberation.

I understand the sentiment, but I fear it would make things even worse for the women/girls. I worry that they will end up being prevented from leaving their homes at all.

What type of jobs can women do in a burka?

This is very similar to the thread on the same subject started a couple of hours ago

No. I'm not a fan of telling women what they can or can't wear, or more laws about what we can do with our bodies.

And religion aside, I can appreciate it must be quite nice to go out knowing you won't have creeps ogling you.

It's been an issue in some nurseries and schools where babies and children rely on facial contact for communication but a burka hides that. I know of schools who specifically bar adults from wearing them when working with children.

Absolutely not. How would the ban be worded in legislation? If a Muslim woman can't cover her face, am I allowed to wear a hood pulled down, and maybe a face mask (not really really relevant any more but for the sake of argument) if I want to? I would absolutely object to a police officer stopping me in the street to tell me what I'm not allowed to wear - and perhaps forcibly disrobing me, as in France. And if I wouldn't accept it I've no right to insist that some other people must

Should other people be able to go about in full balaclavas?

Yes, of course.

This topic rears its head in the public domain every so often. How many people actually wear a burka for it to be an issue? Hardly any!

A niqab is not a burqa. Burqas are rare but niqabs really are not if you live in any city or town with any size of Muslim population. I’ve only lived in cities with small ethnic minority populations but still daily saw niqabs if in the city Centre.

No I don’t think they should be banned. Women should be free to wear whatever they choose AS LONG as it IS their choice.

No, of course not.

And it is very hypocritical of firms like Westfield that ban ski masks and balaclavas but allow full-face coverings as long as you can claim they are religious.

Try doing that in Belfast and see how it goes for you.

No, it's definitely "of course". I've worn balaclavas all my life, they're great when it's cold. You might be happy with the state telling you what to do, I'm glad to live in a free country.

And I couldn't care less what rules private companies set (again, free country) but in everyday public life, in the street, people can put what they like on their face

Er, no I'm alright thanks?

Shouldn’t the feminist point of view be, if men can have their face uncovered then surely women can do the same?

a face covering is not really clothing-clothes cover the body, not the face. A face covering like a balaclava is an accessory that would be worn very rarely.

I don't think the government should interfere in clothing choice. In banks and other places where security is important everybody should uncover their faces but in the street people should be left alone.

I live in a city where there are many women who choose to wear the niqab. From knowing, living and working amongst these women, it’s for them and their faith. They don’t wear them all the time, sometimes only in front of men not from their family, so women, boys and girls would see them without their face covering.

I think if a piece of cloth shakes our faith in feminism, then our feminism isn’t that strong. We should use our imagination and empathy to wonder why this is important to these women and what it gives them, that we perhaps take for granted.

I personally don’t want to strip for money, should I begrudge a woman who wants to because she removes her clothes? I don’t want to wear loads of makeup or get Botox, again should we ban that because of feminism?

Feminism should be for all females, not just those who look and think like our reflections.

I have know quite a few very educated women who chose to wear the hijab when there was no family expectation to do so. The decision was made when starting university or starting a job. They were sometimes the only woman to do so in their families but it expressed their own relationship with their faith.

A police officer can already insist you remove face coverings.

And they do - there were numerous examples of them doing so when they’ve been trialling facial recognition camera systems in London (and other cities). They stopped anyone attempting to cover their face as they walked past, and made them look up at the camera.

As terrifyingly dystopian as that is (although PP all over this thread will presumably love that level of state interference and beg for more), you're still slightly missing the point. There are lots of things the police can insist that you do or don't do, briefly/temporarily, under certain circumstances. That's very different from a blanket law saying you may never do X anywhere, ever.

I don’t want to live in a country that passes laws to tell women what to wear and how to dress.

You claim to have lived in Saudi Arabia so surely you must know.

They should but are liable to be stopped by the police. The IRA (in its various manifestations) made the full face balaclava part of their uniform.
But if you want to wear a nikab (or are forced to by a pack of misogynist men in your family) then banning it is not liable to liberate you. Freedom of conscience is important - unfotunately it allows misogynists to dictate to the females in some family what they should wear.
Education and making the point that this is an open face society might work - but it's time and integration that will fix this problem, not legislation.