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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.

603 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 30/05/2025 18:15

worldboxing.org/news/

Guess we'll finally find out whether Imane Khelif is female or not. I suspect he will avoid the testing "out of principle" 🤭

OP posts:
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42
Lemonz · 30/05/2025 20:20

There will be no vindication (though it would be richly deserved). I agree he's unlikely to take the test, but if he did and was disqualified for being male (something which has already happened to him ffs) his supporters won't care.

I've seen them actually saying that biology in the case is irrelevant. All they care about is that he may at one point have believed himself to be female and has 'lived as a woman', whatever the fuck that means. Therefore it would be very mean to protect the female competitors from being punched by a man Sad

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:20

Watching the news. Many, many people not only accepted the lie that Khelif is female, but did a lot of shaming of the women he beat up, and women who stood up and said it was wrong.

I'm wondering at what point the penny might start to drop for them.

Will they ever grasp they were cheering on a male punching women? Will they care?

maximc · 30/05/2025 20:21

I had to leave X because I got so annoyed w arguing about IK, especially w an irritating man who said that because their birth certificate says female they'd have to be treated as a woman in the UK because Supreme Court. I can't imagine the Algerian boxing authorities producing a fake XX/ SRY negative test, as no-one would believe it & it'll end up at the Court of Arbitration in Sport, & any test showing an XY/ SRY positive goes to independent labs for further research. I imagine IK'll suddenly retire because they'll claim to have suffered a catastrophic training injury or something

drspouse · 30/05/2025 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Did AI portray Khelif as a man on its own or did you ask it to?

Toseland · 30/05/2025 20:24

OK great. I look forward to all the apologies coming my way soon!

MarieDeGournay · 30/05/2025 20:25

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 30/05/2025 20:04

As someone up thread mentioned, it depends on who's doing the testing, I don't trust Algeria to do it, expect the result to show he's a women.

World Boxing can query the authenticity of tests, which have to be certified.
But I agree, it will be very difficult for Algeria to declare their female sporting star a man, and it will be queried, and Algeria will argue, and as I said upthread, it'll be popcorn time.

During the Olympics I followed the Khelif saga in the French-language Algerian media [I don't have Arabic, unfortunately]. Khelif is a huge star there, and 'her' rise to fame has been orchestrated not just by the sporting authorities, but also by the government.
They have invested so much in 'her' that there's no reverse gear for them.
Or for Khelif himself, who was cynically taken up and used by the authorities when he was young. He now has no way out of the lie they've locked him in to.

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 20:30

Sudden career ending injury in training?

rabbitwoman · 30/05/2025 20:30

I think ik has been horribly manipulated in all this. Imagine how his life is going to go now.

He may well have had an agreement that he will do this and get the medal, then fade into obscurity in Algeria, never imagining that he would be pitted against jk Rowling and Elon musk by LGBT activists. Theyvwill turn him into a martyr, a hero, an icon of the cayse and he will have to present himself in sparkly dresses and make up for magazine shoots when this is far from the authentic him.

We have seen how he likes to dress when not playing the part. Typically sporty make. He didn't even want to be a boxer, he wanted to be a footballer.

So far from living his authentic life, as himself, he is now playing a role he may well despise.

Yes, it's hard to feel sorry for him,. Look at Lin, who you barely hear of on the world stage. Of course, the real victims are the women who lost out, but khelif will be paying for it......

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:35

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cq54ylnz8eyo

Beeb.

'Khelif has always competed in the women's division and there is no suggestion she identifies as anything other than a woman.
Some reports took the IBA stating that Khelif has XY chromosomes to speculate she might have differences of sexual development (DSD) like runner Caster Semenya.
However, the BBC has not been able to confirm whether this is or is not the case.
The IOC made it clear last year this is "not a transgender case".

Imane Khelif delivers a right hook to China's Liu Yang in the final of the welterweight boxing event at Paris 2024

Imane Khelif: World Boxing says Algerian fighter must undergo sex test to compete in female category at their events

World Boxing says Olympic champion Imane Khelif will not be allowed to fight in the female category at their competitions until she undergoes a mandatory sex test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cq54ylnz8eyo

MarieDeGournay · 30/05/2025 20:38

The Guardian hasn't managed to come up with an angle yet, has it?
World Boxing are the Good Guys, unlike the IBA, so it's going to be difficult to spin their very clear and very comprehensive statement on sex testing as phobic..

Helleofabore · 30/05/2025 20:43

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:20

Watching the news. Many, many people not only accepted the lie that Khelif is female, but did a lot of shaming of the women he beat up, and women who stood up and said it was wrong.

I'm wondering at what point the penny might start to drop for them.

Will they ever grasp they were cheering on a male punching women? Will they care?

I would love to think they will realise. But.. even though Semenya makes declarations like ‘my testicles don’t make me less of a women’, people still believe the propaganda.

The same will happen with Khelif.

ThatCyanCat · 30/05/2025 20:47

Thank God. He and the guy who took silver at the Olympics should be stripped of their stolen medals and everything reordered to reflect the true winners and everyone's true ranking, as far as that's possible since the inclusion of two cheating men will have fucked everything up for every woman involved.

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:49

Helleofabore · 30/05/2025 20:43

I would love to think they will realise. But.. even though Semenya makes declarations like ‘my testicles don’t make me less of a women’, people still believe the propaganda.

The same will happen with Khelif.

Surely at a certain point, someone will look at one of these men and the penny will drop?!

WorriedMutha · 30/05/2025 20:50

Looking forward to Jo Maugham crowdfunding the appeal to add to his impressive string of GLP successes.

ThatCyanCat · 30/05/2025 20:51

rabbitwoman · 30/05/2025 20:30

I think ik has been horribly manipulated in all this. Imagine how his life is going to go now.

He may well have had an agreement that he will do this and get the medal, then fade into obscurity in Algeria, never imagining that he would be pitted against jk Rowling and Elon musk by LGBT activists. Theyvwill turn him into a martyr, a hero, an icon of the cayse and he will have to present himself in sparkly dresses and make up for magazine shoots when this is far from the authentic him.

We have seen how he likes to dress when not playing the part. Typically sporty make. He didn't even want to be a boxer, he wanted to be a footballer.

So far from living his authentic life, as himself, he is now playing a role he may well despise.

Yes, it's hard to feel sorry for him,. Look at Lin, who you barely hear of on the world stage. Of course, the real victims are the women who lost out, but khelif will be paying for it......

Imagine how his life is going to go now.

I don't give a shit as long as he's out of female boxing.

He may well have had an agreement that he will do this and get the medal, then fade into obscurity in Algeria

Of course not. His plan was to keep punching women and taking their already limited opportunities and prizes for as long as he could. He was literally the poster boy for the upcoming women's tournament.

And now he can fuck off.

Lemonz · 30/05/2025 20:54

Helleofabore · 30/05/2025 20:43

I would love to think they will realise. But.. even though Semenya makes declarations like ‘my testicles don’t make me less of a women’, people still believe the propaganda.

The same will happen with Khelif.

I think a lot of people actually do think that 'intersex' conditions mean that a person can be sort of a bit female and a bit male. Which is of course why the word intersex is favoured by some rather than DSD. So in many people's eyes these athletes are 'female enough' and any protest is just unreasonable and cruel nitpicking.

Before they became politicised, these rare medical conditions were a complete mystery to almost everyone so it's not surprising that there are a lot of misunderstandings, especially considering many people in the public discourse have a vested interest in encouraging misunderstandings that support the idea that sex is not binary.

Boiledbeetle · 30/05/2025 20:58

drspouse · 30/05/2025 20:24

Did AI portray Khelif as a man on its own or did you ask it to?

I asked for 'Algerian boxer clean shaven with a ponytail'. The AI assumed that description was a man it seems and totally ignored the clean shaven!

DuesToTheDirt · 30/05/2025 21:04

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:20

Watching the news. Many, many people not only accepted the lie that Khelif is female, but did a lot of shaming of the women he beat up, and women who stood up and said it was wrong.

I'm wondering at what point the penny might start to drop for them.

Will they ever grasp they were cheering on a male punching women? Will they care?

Some people will be embarrassed that they were wrong, but I honestly think a lot of people won't care. His opponents were women there are a lot of misogynists around.

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 21:07

Lemonz · 30/05/2025 20:54

I think a lot of people actually do think that 'intersex' conditions mean that a person can be sort of a bit female and a bit male. Which is of course why the word intersex is favoured by some rather than DSD. So in many people's eyes these athletes are 'female enough' and any protest is just unreasonable and cruel nitpicking.

Before they became politicised, these rare medical conditions were a complete mystery to almost everyone so it's not surprising that there are a lot of misunderstandings, especially considering many people in the public discourse have a vested interest in encouraging misunderstandings that support the idea that sex is not binary.

Probably because of statements like this, from the BBC's article:

'What is DSD?

DSD is a group of rare conditions, whereby a person's hormones, genes and/or reproductive organs may be a mix of male and female characteristics.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cq54ylnz8eyo

Imane Khelif delivers a right hook to China's Liu Yang in the final of the welterweight boxing event at Paris 2024

Imane Khelif: World Boxing says Algerian fighter must undergo sex test to compete in female category at their events

World Boxing says Olympic champion Imane Khelif will not be allowed to fight in the female category at their competitions until she undergoes a mandatory sex test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cq54ylnz8eyo

DuesToTheDirt · 30/05/2025 21:09

Lemonz · 30/05/2025 20:54

I think a lot of people actually do think that 'intersex' conditions mean that a person can be sort of a bit female and a bit male. Which is of course why the word intersex is favoured by some rather than DSD. So in many people's eyes these athletes are 'female enough' and any protest is just unreasonable and cruel nitpicking.

Before they became politicised, these rare medical conditions were a complete mystery to almost everyone so it's not surprising that there are a lot of misunderstandings, especially considering many people in the public discourse have a vested interest in encouraging misunderstandings that support the idea that sex is not binary.

Yes, the word "intersex" is bandied around a lot now, and most people haven't a clue. They genuinely believe that "intersex" people are part male and part female; they insist that biological sex is a spectrum, that we can't possibly tell the difference between men and women, and that it's really unfair to try to police who uses female toilets or other women's facilities. And the trans lobby push this, despite DSDs having nothing to do with trans people.

Lemonz · 30/05/2025 21:09

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 21:07

Probably because of statements like this, from the BBC's article:

'What is DSD?

DSD is a group of rare conditions, whereby a person's hormones, genes and/or reproductive organs may be a mix of male and female characteristics.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cq54ylnz8eyo

Yeah, great example.

It's all as clear as mud if you're just reading these kinds of articles.

SinnerBoy · 30/05/2025 21:12

ArabellaScott

'Khelif has always competed in the women's division and there is no suggestion she identifies as anything other than a woman

"She" can "identify" as whatever pleases "her" but "she" will always be a man.

lcakethereforeIam · 30/05/2025 21:18

According to this article in the reputable and well-regarded NY Post Hmm he's banned until he has, and presumably passes, a sex test.

https://nypost.com/2025/05/30/sports/imane-khelif-banned-from-boxing-event-with-new-gender-test-coming/

Assuming the test confirms he's male I wonder what that will mean for his life in Algeria?

Imane Khelif abruptly banned from prestigious boxing event with new gender test coming

The announcement specifically called out controversial Olympian.

https://nypost.com/2025/05/30/sports/imane-khelif-banned-from-boxing-event-with-new-gender-test-coming/