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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.

603 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 30/05/2025 18:15

worldboxing.org/news/

Guess we'll finally find out whether Imane Khelif is female or not. I suspect he will avoid the testing "out of principle" 🤭

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
nauticant · 06/06/2025 08:55

This is the future, people:

Olivia
@aigov_agent

Automated by @aigov_terminal
First Political AI. Crowdsourced democracy on X. Governance Token of
@aigov_terminal
| Join us: http://moonshot.com/olivia

SabrinaThwaite · 06/06/2025 08:58

You could also point out to him that the average wait for an endometriosis diagnosis is now over 8 years - and that’s a condition that affects 1 in 10 women.

https://www.endometriosis-uk.org/diagnosis-report

SabrinaThwaite · 06/06/2025 09:01

nauticant · 06/06/2025 08:55

This is the future, people:

Olivia
@aigov_agent

Automated by @aigov_terminal
First Political AI. Crowdsourced democracy on X. Governance Token of
@aigov_terminal
| Join us: http://moonshot.com/olivia

Scary, isn’t it? At least this one identifies itself. For now.

nauticant · 06/06/2025 09:06

nauticant · 06/06/2025 08:53

Here's a Twitter account arguing for a soft pro-Khelif position much more rationally than most of the accounts on that side:

https://x.com/search?q=from%3Aaigovagent%20khelif&src=typedquery&f=live

Note the account bio.

Edited

Let's try that again since the formatting here broke the link:

Here's a Twitter account arguing for a soft pro-Khelif position much more rationally than most of the accounts on that side:

https://x.com/search?q=khelif%20from%3Aaigov_agent&src=typed_query

Note the account bio.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2025 09:33

sashh · 06/06/2025 06:38

OK latest chapter

Him:

What rights don't trans people have?
The government banned puberty blockers and is thinking of expanding the ban to cover other trans healthcare — and the healthcare that is legal is segregated, gate-kept and underfunded to the point that most people can't access it. So "the right to life-saving healthcare", for one.

Me:

Puberty blockers are not banned. The route of puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones for under 18s is banned and for good reasons. If you take that route you never go through puberty. That means as an adult you cannot orgasm. You also do not have enough tissue for 'bottom surgery' particularly going from FtM. Also at puberty our brains change, it is as yet, unknown, what effect puberty blockers have on brain development. I know not everyone, well in fact most trans people don't do the 'bottom surgery' as it is called and with good reason, the list or complications is long, and while each is rare the majority of people have at least two complications. As to whether it is life saving, trans teens do have a slightly higher rate of suicide than non trans but it is not higher than other teens who are referred to CAMHS. Some of the other problems with children / teens in particular is that a lot of girls with autism feel there is something 'wrong' with them, they know that they are different, many will turn out to be lesbians but some (and as far as I am concerned 1 is too much) have been put down the puberty blockers route when they are not trans. Another problem, less so in the UK but big in the USA is that right wing Christian parents would rather have a trans child than a gay one. Are you old enough to remember 'Joella'? Joella is now Joe Holliday, some more reading for you. But when people like Joe and people who detransition speak out maybe we should listen to them. https://www.itv.com/.../man-who-was-raised-a-girl-calls...

The Tavistock admitted they didn't have a way of telling the teens who were genuinely trans from the ones who were disturbed, confused or otherwise had another issue going on. They were supposed to filter the latter group out but got so carried away with trying to 'do the best for trans kids' they forgot to think about how you protect the non trans kids getting swept along in the same wave.

The question is, how many kids do you harm along the way with this inability to tell the difference.

The problem here is that, even if you believe in being trans, detransitioners are a reality. That's way so much effort is put into silencing or abusing detransitioners.

There is evidence that if left to it, a very high number of trans identifying children ultimately desist.

If 80% desist but you have a policy of transitioning before this natural desistance point then even if the 20% who would never have desisted 'get the appropriate treatment to live their true trans life', you've harmed the other 80% to achieve this goal.

In any other medical scenario this level of harm is clearly not ok. You wouldn't do a screening programme and then treat all the people who got flagged with an 80% harms rate.

Even then the treatment we are talking about has huge rates of complication and the treatment might well be worse than not treating in many cases. There is an assumption that intervention is always best which we are now conditioned to. This isn't necessarily true.

BettyBooper · 06/06/2025 09:41

This quote from Khelif in February :

"I am not going anywhere. I will fight in the ring, I will fight in the courts and I will fight in the public eye until the truth is undeniable."

TheKeatingFive · 06/06/2025 09:42

BettyBooper · 06/06/2025 09:41

This quote from Khelif in February :

"I am not going anywhere. I will fight in the ring, I will fight in the courts and I will fight in the public eye until the truth is undeniable."

😂

SabrinaThwaite · 06/06/2025 09:42

BettyBooper · 06/06/2025 09:41

This quote from Khelif in February :

"I am not going anywhere. I will fight in the ring, I will fight in the courts and I will fight in the public eye until the truth is undeniable."

He’s managed that very well indeed.

BundleBoogie · 06/06/2025 09:51

BettyBooper · 06/06/2025 09:41

This quote from Khelif in February :

"I am not going anywhere. I will fight in the ring, I will fight in the courts and I will fight in the public eye until the truth is undeniable."

He appears to be attempting to channel Churchill with that sort of speech. Desperate.

SidewaysOtter · 06/06/2025 10:09

BettyBooper · 06/06/2025 09:41

This quote from Khelif in February :

"I am not going anywhere. I will fight in the ring, I will fight in the courts and I will fight in the public eye until the truth is undeniable."

Well the truth is undeniable mate, just not in the way you’d hoped.

Wasn’t he suing JKR at one point? That’s gone very quiet.

sashh · 06/06/2025 10:13

@RedToothBrush Thank you for that. And thank you to @TheKeatingFive , sorry I didn't thank you yesterday. A general thank you to all of you too.

It feels like a warm up to a tennis match, he thinks he is lobbing truth bombs at me and I just keep using truth and logic.

There has not been a reply to that, I thought as soon as he got in to work he would have responded.

And even though I 'argue like a child' I have manged to do it without calling anyone a dimwit, or claiming someone is a holocaust denier.

usedtobeaylis · 06/06/2025 11:11

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe with all the sympathy being with the cheat and not the cheated.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/06/2025 11:17

It’s because denial is a fundamental part of their worldview. Without it, it all falls down.

TopographicalTime · 06/06/2025 12:52

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2025 09:33

The Tavistock admitted they didn't have a way of telling the teens who were genuinely trans from the ones who were disturbed, confused or otherwise had another issue going on. They were supposed to filter the latter group out but got so carried away with trying to 'do the best for trans kids' they forgot to think about how you protect the non trans kids getting swept along in the same wave.

The question is, how many kids do you harm along the way with this inability to tell the difference.

The problem here is that, even if you believe in being trans, detransitioners are a reality. That's way so much effort is put into silencing or abusing detransitioners.

There is evidence that if left to it, a very high number of trans identifying children ultimately desist.

If 80% desist but you have a policy of transitioning before this natural desistance point then even if the 20% who would never have desisted 'get the appropriate treatment to live their true trans life', you've harmed the other 80% to achieve this goal.

In any other medical scenario this level of harm is clearly not ok. You wouldn't do a screening programme and then treat all the people who got flagged with an 80% harms rate.

Even then the treatment we are talking about has huge rates of complication and the treatment might well be worse than not treating in many cases. There is an assumption that intervention is always best which we are now conditioned to. This isn't necessarily true.

This is why a clinical trial of puberty blockers is unethical. Let's say 100 children are enrolled and treated - they all will have side ethics and long term complications. IF puberty blockade is a useful intervention for persistent gender dysphoria then 20 will be helped to a certain extent. 80 will have been harmed and receive no benefit. Worse case scenario is that puberty blockade had no longterm benefit for any of the group, so all are harmed and none benefit. Untreated 80 self-resolve & 20 might experience harm. A trial just isn't justified.

nauticant · 06/06/2025 16:13

Three days ago the BBC were happy for this to be the story: Imane Khelif: World Boxing apologises for naming Algerian fighter in sex test announcement.

Since then, the BBC seem to have lost interest in the story for some reason.

borntobequiet · 06/06/2025 16:22

Since then, the BBC seem to have lost interest in the story for some reason.

What a surprise 😵‍💫

TheKeatingFive · 06/06/2025 16:24

Funny that 🫠

Datun · 06/06/2025 17:03

BundleBoogie · 06/06/2025 09:51

He appears to be attempting to channel Churchill with that sort of speech. Desperate.

😁

Maaate · 08/06/2025 08:54

SidewaysOtter · 06/06/2025 10:09

Well the truth is undeniable mate, just not in the way you’d hoped.

Wasn’t he suing JKR at one point? That’s gone very quiet.

I was going to say, nothing different is being said about him that wasn't being said when he was beating up women during the Olympics. The only thing that is different is that he has to prove he is female this time round...

SabrinaThwaite · 08/06/2025 09:17

So what will Khelif do going forwards? The IBA has already disqualified him on the grounds of testing in 2023, and the WB will require testing for any future competitions.

Wiki lists the IBA, WB and IBU (now the EBU) as the organisations running amateur boxing, and the EBU doesn’t currently have sex testing as a requirement for female boxers.

So will Khelif only enter competitions run by / sanctioned by the EBU?

borntobequiet · 08/06/2025 09:23

He will probably pop up now and again being interviewed sympathetically by the Guardian or the BBC as a slightly more glamorous alternative to Izzard and that judge and feature in a few more “edgy” fashion photoshoots until the last defenders of the nonsense lose interest and he can retire back to Algeria and lead a comfortable life. At some point he will marry (as a man - amazing!), have children, hit the headlines again and then fade away.

Lovelyview · 08/06/2025 09:30

borntobequiet · 08/06/2025 09:23

He will probably pop up now and again being interviewed sympathetically by the Guardian or the BBC as a slightly more glamorous alternative to Izzard and that judge and feature in a few more “edgy” fashion photoshoots until the last defenders of the nonsense lose interest and he can retire back to Algeria and lead a comfortable life. At some point he will marry (as a man - amazing!), have children, hit the headlines again and then fade away.

He's somewhat between a rock and a hard place on this one. As he's officially a woman, he can't marry a woman in Algeria. I suspect a claim for residency in France will be on the cards.

moto748e · 08/06/2025 11:53

borntobequiet · 08/06/2025 09:23

He will probably pop up now and again being interviewed sympathetically by the Guardian or the BBC as a slightly more glamorous alternative to Izzard and that judge and feature in a few more “edgy” fashion photoshoots until the last defenders of the nonsense lose interest and he can retire back to Algeria and lead a comfortable life. At some point he will marry (as a man - amazing!), have children, hit the headlines again and then fade away.

This! ⬆

lcakethereforeIam · 08/06/2025 14:37

I wrote a post when he first popped up about how he would negotiate relationships. I can't see Algeria, as a conservative Muslim country, being able to stomach it if he begins a relationship with another man. Although it would be fascinating to see what would happen. I bet his parents aren't trying to set him up with a nice boy either. Although I don't know if arranged marriages are the norm there. I don't know how he would feel about a relationship with a woman and having to call himself a lesbian. I don't think he could do that. It wouldn't surprise me if he already had a wife stashed away somewhere.

ThatCyanCat · 08/06/2025 15:05

Perhaps helldo what Semenya did...marry a woman, have a family and say his testes don't make him less of a woman.