Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

"Transition is real, and the effects of hormones is a lot stronger than people think. It quite literally changed your secondary sex characteristics, especially when you start before puberty finished like I did."

It changes them, yes, but it doesn't change them into the other sex's secondary sex characteristics. You may have developed breasts, but your penis didn't invert itself into a vagina. Your male body didn't actually transition into a female one.

Transitioning is the treatment for dysphoria, this is well documented and has been for years. The suicide rate for trans people is highest amongst those who are not accepted as who they are. Trans people who transition and who are accepted, have a significantly lower suicide rate.

I'm surprised this needs to be said but, different conditions require different treatment.

One size fits all approaches don't work in medicine, imagine trying to argue that for any other condition. "Your arm hurts? Have you considered cold and flu tablets?"

Genitals are primary sex characteristics, not secondary ones.

Secondary sex characteristics absolutely do change into the sex that aligns with how we feel.

No they don't, it's still male breast tissue.

I agree, and it's also largely due to the fact that the most prominent people in this ideology, like IW for example, look like what they are, ageing men pretending to be women, no teenager wants to be associated with that!

I had a very interesting chat with my 17 year old nephew recently, and his opinion was that it's the kids seeking attention that are involved, no one believes that they're trans, they just feel sorry for them. He also said that when the teachers talk about it there is very much a push towards declaring your 'gender identity', but more and more he said that him and the other students are saying they don't have one, and surely it's ok for them to just be who they are without making any great declaration. His overall reaction was that they're all a bit bored with it!

No it really isn't?

www.uclahealth.org/departments/radiology/education/breast-imaging-teaching-resources/cases/case-breast-imaging-female-transgender-male-female-patients#:~:text=Histologically%2C%20transgender%20women%20who%20take,demonstrates%20ductal%20and%20stromal%20hyperplasia.

'Secondary sex characteristics absolutely do change into the sex that aligns with how we feel.'

Where have you got this from, you can't change sex, it is immutable and binary? Men who have breast implants wouldn't be able to breastfeed as they don't have real breasts, They don't even look like real breasts, as unfortunately we got to see just recently with the men displaying their moobs.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want to about essential genetic natures. Break out the rulers and calipers, write the highly biased junk science (oops: https://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12874-025-02581-7? ), have your coffee mornings, laugh at our bodies and our attempts to live with some measure of human dignity.

It's when you harm people; harass and monster anyone who stands up to you; ban their healthcare; eject them from public life and deny their very existence that other people have a problem. That is no longer neutrally holding a philosophical belief - that's choosing to become an agent of harm.

You keep framing this as a matter of 'accept that you are male and everything will go away' but this isn't and has never been about that and you know it. Looking at the way that trans people who capitulate are treated, and the threads that pop up on here asking where to attack next, that just patently and demonstrably isn't true.

You cannot stop. Your ideology - the entire founding principles of the organisations you have built to legitimise your crusade - will not let you. You have to keep pushing, because the community you have built revolves around pushing to destroy the lives of trans people to enforce a rigid sex class system that allows only superficial, authorised variation within its bounds. It's the reason for its existence. You cannot simply let things be, because you define yourself as fundamentally opposed to the very existence of the people you have aligned your life toward opposing. To not oppose them would mean having to find another focus. Each of these people is, after all, a huge problem for a sane world.

You'll be eaten alive by your own side if you ever offer serious points on the negotiating table or show genuine compassion, rather than the needling concern trolling and empty performance you're giving here.

I'm aware that isn't a phenomenon that applies only to anti-trans activists, but there's a history here. We're in this situation because every time the trans community concedes something, the line rolls right past it and it is immediately forgotten.

We were assured this was never going to be about toilets or healthcare bans yet here we are. Healthcare and toilet bans are here. We resolved years ago to stop conceding because concession requires good faith reciprocation.

So no, none of this will go away if I start pretending that I am a man to satisfy your ideology. It does not matter what I call myself. This isn't about that. It has never been about that. You know that. I know that.

If everything about our lives wasn't under constant attack, there might be room to explore and discuss in a neutral fashion. We can't, though. You won't let us. Every time one of us reaches out in earnest - answers the call to debate - we are quoted out of context, ambushed with bullshit gish gallops and cynical gotchas, or simply silenced entirely while our very humanity is denied

So no. I will not call myself a man. Because I am not. Because no matter what I do or say, it will never be enough for you.

The question is always irrelevant. It is simply shaped to fit the pre-ordained answer. Just as it has been found to be in the case of the Cass review, which has been superceded by a far more robust and neutral review conducted by the state of Utah which found no justification to ban trans healthcare.

The mask hasn't just slipped. It's fallen off entirely. Previously trans-hostile newspapers are now having to come to terms with the fact that the anti-trans lobby isn't going to stop; that this was never about safeguarding or reasonable concerns, and they've been sold a pack of lies.

Cass is in tatters - superceded by more recent and comprehensive works, and proven to be biased. Falkner and the EHRC have been shown for what they are. Badenoch prattles on about trans people and nobody is buying it anymore. Every time Trump or Musk speaks about trans people across the Atlantic, people can't help but compare their words with anti-trans rhetoric here.

People are seeing where this is all actually going, and they are horrified.

The key word in there being 'similar' so not the same thing at all.

Science? Are you aware of what HRT does to trans people.

Trans Women literally grow breast tissue similar to cisgender women. We don't need breast implants, HRT does it for us.

Note the word 'similar ' in your highlighted section. Not the same. It was generated by a man taking drugs, it is not female.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want to about essential genetic natures. Break out the rulers and calipers, write the highly biased junk science (oops: https://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12874-025-02581-7? about:blank ), have your coffee mornings, laugh at our bodies and our attempts to live with some measure of human dignity.

That might be the first time I actually agree with Hatched, that article in the link really is junk science.

You need to stop posting this absolute nonsense, everything you are saying has been discredited for the abject hyperbolic, dangerous information that it is.

85% of young people's dysphoria is resolved after puberty, they almost all turn out to be same sex attracted. A very high proportion of them also have a sex offender as a parent or main carer.

I always find the phrase 'accepted as they are' very odd in the context of people who wish to be accepted as what they're not, i.e. the opposite sex.

For someone claiming to be a woman with lots of female friends, you really should know by now that women don't habitually mention their shoe size in the same way as they refer to their dress size. In any case a 5'2" woman is vanishingly unlikely to take size 8 shoes. I'm 5'8" and my shoe size is six and a half.

Tell that to the medical professionals who recently found the exact opposite actually:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/05/utah-transgender-youth-affirming-care-ban/

Pretending this is settled science is misinformation, there is a lot of competing data on this. But so far our side has lots of research showing it's benefits, your side has a report that says there isn't enough evidence. Not evidence to the contrary.

You need to make your mind up, is it 'similar' or is it exactly the same? I think you're a bit confused.

That's not how biology works. The reason the body grows those breast is because the same genetic code exists in both sexes, it's just not expressed without the presence of Oestrogen.

I've reported your posts where you are pushing the false suicide rhetoric, it's dangerous.

Surely you know that there is a difference between male people's 'breast tissue' and the interactive system that is behind the breast and endocrine system of a female person?

'Similar' is not the same thing as being a female person's breast. That is like saying that a cavity inserted in the pelvis of a male person is 'similar' to a vagina. No, it is not. Surely you understand this.

Effectively hormones cause your breasts to enlarge. They are a body part that male people have and they do enlarge for multiple reasons. But they are still 'male breasts'. Just enlarged.

Biology works by having two sexes, men and women, which are binary and immutable. Feelings are irrelevant to biology, it doesn't recognise them.

Or 'Through the Looking Glass' ...

This really is the lie that won't die, isn't it? @AYoungTransWoman linked a paper earlier that shows the opposite of what you are saying. You seem to be obsessed with propagating this myth, which is a very odd behaviour for someone who has been claiming to follow the science in recent posts.

Appleby must be so proud of you!

Umm no, the suicide rate increases after transition:

https://statsforgender.org/category/suicide/

And it is disingenuous, at best, to equate treating a cold and a broken arm differently, to treating two false congitions differently. Gender difficulties are the only mental health condition for which the current treatment is affirmation of the faulty cognition. No one suggests that people who believe that they are Napoleon should be affirmed and encouraged in that delusion, yet for those who believe that they are the opposite sex apparently that is the best treatment.

PS transition to the opposite sex is impossible. Humans can't change sex. Sorry you were lied to.