Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

You know it's possible to agree on certain things and disagree on others. And still get on.

Novel I know.

Do they know you are a Mumsnetter?

there’s 9 million of us, fyi

also you’re one

Safer than arguing with a 5'2" woman with small feet?

yeah. That was garbled. I was typing quickly on my phone and made a hash of what I was attempting to say. I will redo it.

That is not even relevant to the point (whether that poster had family or not).

The point is you keep telling us stuff like

“a constellation of statistically linked elements that together describe something almost intangible and linguistically elusive”

and

"I'm an adult human, and I recognise within myself a constellation of data points that I identify as female”.

But the reality is that you seem to have used your female family members as the reference base for 'womanhood'. Hence you posted about whether they fit into size 8 clothes as being somehow relevant to knowing whether RedToothbrushes' reference to 'size 8' meant clothes or shoes rather than using lived experience of being female. When whether your female family members could fit size 8 or not is not relevant to the point being made about your error. That is because understanding the reference comes from a lifetime experience of being a female person and being involved with those types of conversations, as a shared experience of being a female person. But either you fail to understand the points being made or you are desperately attempting to distract people.

We keep trying to tell you in so many different ways and have been for years, that being a woman is only something that female people can be. Because it is not open to a male person's interpretation. It is not learned from watching a select group of female people and how they live their lives but based on your male perspective.

Particularly when the female people you do seem to take notice of are potentially very heavily invested in keeping you happy and therefore may tell you things that are not really true. But that make you feel good. eg. about using female single sex spaces.

You have tried to define womanhood so that it will include you. Such as the examples I quoted above. You have tried out different definitions but none of them are based in material reality. That is what happens when you force open meanings of words to change the established meaning to include the opposite of the intended meaning.

But you don't even seem to be able to acknowledge just how limited your understanding of 'womanhood' is despite all the bravado about passing and how long you have been doing it. Yet so many of your posts show just how superficial your understanding of womanhood is.

How could she have done when I bought it from the middle aisle at Aldi, along with a chainsaw?

Na I just suspect given the raw material being produced they just are at the stage I'm at of laughing at the ridiculousness being espoused.

Empathy? After you've called everyone Nazis and would be murderers?!

Good one.

Genuinely, BH, why don't you want to use one of the mixed-gender loos but the other mixed-gender loo is ok?

39 is a UK 6 women's (currently average female UK shoe size.

38 is a UK women's 5 (the average female shoe size 30 years ago).

40 is a UK women's 7

41 is a UK women's 8
OR an UK men's 7

Reference?

I used to work in an international shoe shop in the UK.

5ft 10, and my SHOE size is a 41(8) now, but was a 40 (7) pre-pregnancy.

I’m still baffled about the bit where the hero got groped at work and HR did nothing. It was a bit hard to follow tbh. Needs work

Fucking hell, Red. Guy Ritchie will be making a film about you soon!

I just hate shitty film pitches. This one is melodramatic, pompous, self-indulgent, based on nothing and goes nowhere. If you showed it on a flight I'd still walk out.

Now, add in Lady Bigfoot as a villain and we could get somewhere. You were threatening us with her disapproval earlier. Perhaps she can kill someone off by stabbing them with a size 8 stiletto or clubbing them with a Doc Marten. Our hero, despondent at having to whizz in the men's, formulates a plan as he stands sadly over the urinals. Find a technical twist to it and we could have an episode of Black Mirror.

Ah, it was you that elbowed me out of the way to get at it.

Bad luck. They have High Courts in Lidl if you're quick.

JKR fucking bought them all!!

We are already IN an episode of Black Mirror

Of course she fucking did. She's probably just going to hoard them, along with ALL the lawyers 🙄

This seems to suggest that co-workers will spurn a trans identified male for not using single sex provision for females and would rather them use the female provision. This goes not align with what polling tells us.

Or, is it saying that they will be spurned because co-workers will discover they are trans. Again, poll suggest that the majority of people have no issues with gender non conformity. So, it’s difficult to imagine that colleagues will turn against people who do not dress in conventional ways.

If trans people are discriminated against in the ways you describe, such as unfair pay or redundancy, the EA2010 provides good protections on this front.

I think the outstanding issue is that of people feeling like they’ve been lied to. If colleagues have been told, or led to believe that a male is actually female, relationships may sour, in the same way as they do when people are deceived in other ways.

Empathy for what?

That post is just your paranoid fantasy.

None of it has happened.

Italian week at Lidl from Thursday, must stock up on nduja, might check if there are still some high courts lurking in the middle of our Lidl.

I notice we got another post about a person who has been using female single sex spaces at work while knowing that they are a male person and then being discovered to be a male person. And that female people don't like understanding that they were sharing what they expected was female single sex spaces with a male person and are uncomfortable with that person now.

With no understanding as to why female colleagues would not be happy with the situation retrospectively or going forward.

It's going to be one fucking funny film about a 5'2" woman who thinks she's a loan shark and tries to scare everyone but it all goes horribly wrong as she's a bit shit at being a gangster.

So she tells everyone if they don't sort their shit out they'll have her size 8s to deal with. Cos obviously they are all men and don't realise that she's only got size 4s.

Instead due to a strange inexplicable misunderstanding they are under the impression that's she a prestigious member of an illicit far right group (headed by JKR). All she has to do is give The Look.

You know The Look. The Look that mums, teachers (and definitely Datun) give kids that know they are being little dickheads. So they run around going 'please don't hurt me, I'm a poor vulnerable loan shark goon'. (That's the character played by Vinny).

Then bash everyone that owes money.

Oh and I demand a good car chase with plenty of crashes. I mean it's a Guy Ritchie film after all.

I wouldn't go to see it. He should stick to comedy, his comedy's funny.

Corte Suprema di Cassazione, surely

It sounds much better than Butters film!

Yeah, it'd be awesome to snatch up the Italian high court along with some mortadella (preferably the one with pistachios).