Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

Oi! I used to live there! (Actually true!!!!)

5' 2" and shoe size 6. Interestingly, podiatrist told me I am flat-footed and should actually be a size 5. Something for the short, large-footed amongst you to ponder

That's the context within which I usually see shoe sizes mentioned by anti-trans activists - and they seem to get mentioned a lot more than clothes sizes. There seems to be a particularly visceral obsession with feet, as if mentioning a stereotypical image of a trans woman with large feet carries a sort of totemic resonance. Weirds me out, tbh.

Clearly not, you haven't got the feet for it.

Yawn.

Looking for more attention now we are talking about shoes?

Fucking hell, man have a day off will you.

80+ posts in the past 24 hours all about you. Terrified and weirded out.

When I'm terrified by people, I tend to step away. Maybe that's just an inbuilt self preservation thing (rather than a self absorbed thing)

You reckon you don't have time to sock puppet. Sure seems like you have a lot of time on your hands to me.

But it was you who brought up shoe size! Nobody else mentioned it!

I do think it’s naive to think that women’s rights will be protected in that shorter time. Women’s suffrage ‘ended’ in 1928 with the equal rights to women’s voting. However women have still been fighting ever since and before then for equality in many other areas of life. In my opinion women have never really been protected with their rights. It’s always been a battle.

I have no wish to destroy you, but I will never, ever believe that someone who is born one sex can become another and, if you were born male, I will never believe you are a woman and I dont want to be near you.

Butters accusing us of being obsessive weirdos is like when Redditors tell us we spend too much time online and need to touch grass.

I wish he'd answer my questions. I don’t know why he's avoiding them. He should know the character well enough by now and it's not as if he's even trying to look rational any more. I just want the laugh now.

Big socks

I do see that it’s awkward for @ButterflyHatched and others here who have a long climb down from a position that’s becoming increasingly untenable to maintain - but if the fading away of trans ideology means that in future, people can get better help to live comfortably in their bodies without the need for extensive modification or dissonance, then that’s likely a good thing? Plus it would be good to think that we’d eventually move past gender stereotypes - and we can’t while trans ideology is a thing.

It's a while ago now, and I know I ought to have got past t, but my mind persists in coming back to

ButterflyHatched
writing
Stalin infamously persecuted LGBT people in the USSR
and further down the thread that the Nazis in 1930s Germany did the same.

Wrong on both: Stalin and Hitler infamously persecuted homosexual men and women. Neither did anything to the trans community, because it didn't exist during the lifetime of either man: the first actual attempt to produce a transsexual individual was in the 1950s. And I am not at all sure that claiming to be bi was all that common in the 1930s, either, though it might be observed as happening in some cases.

(I have no idea what invading Poland may have to do with the matter at all, but both men having done so at much the same time got dragged in somehow as well. There must be a strange mind behind brandishing that factoid in this context, I felt.)

I hope so.

As a trans person myself, it would be nice to live in a society where genuine trans people can live in peace without the "look at me!" types ruining it by pushing themselves to the front.

I think if we do get fourth spaces (3rd spaces are for disabled people) then that could potentially settle quite a lot of issues, but there are still those who won't be happy and will continue to kick up a fuss.

Oh sorry, ok I'll shut up and accept the healthcare and toilet bans in good grace now you've told me off for giving a shit about my own eradication from public life.

Have you worn your True Trans badge in public yet?

Are these fourth spaces going to be added to existing NHS wards and public facilities, or will they be included in the new ones that will need to be built to accommodate them?

Well since transpeople are such a tiny minority that none of us can every possibly have ever met one and all the real ones are too terrified to go anywhere now because of being eradicated I'm not sure they're going to need whole wards and public facilities built for them.

Also, thanks for another demonstration of how TRAs talk to transpeople who don't toe the activist line.

You are not banned from toilets. Just use the men's as you should have been all along.
You are not banned from health care , what makes you think you are?

At last, something we can agree on!

I've been saying for ages that the demand for 'third/fourth spaces' is unrealistic, because the cost in both money and disruption would be huge, and it's not possible to justify such expense for a tiny percentage of the population who don't want to use the existing facilities designated for their sex.

Fortunately, there's no evidence that transwomen experience any problems from other me in men's toilets, so using the toilets designated for your biological sex may be one of those things in life that aren't perfect, but also aren't worth kicking up a fuss about, and we just get on with it.

Well, when I say 'we', I mean people with a sense of proportionality...

Not overly keen on lovebombing transpeople who insist on being willingly complicit in our eradication from public life, sorry. If transpeople want to prostrate themselves before antitranspeople who nothing will ever be good enough for then they are welcome to do so, but I'd like to live with dignity personally.

Unfortunately the very fact you are in such a space means that it is no longer a female single-sex space, but a mixed one. You were badly misled by being encouraged to believe you had an automatic right to be in female spaces, something which the Supreme Court judgment has clarified is NOT the case.

eradication from public life

whats’s this then BH? How are you being eradicated from public life?

There is no healthcare for trans kids in the UK anymore.
Adult healthcare is currently under review.
The media is already running hit-pieces advocating for a complete ban.
GP's are being advised to refuse shared care agreements for private patients.
If I needed a referral back to the GIC - for, say, followup surgery or a medication review - how long would I be waiting again? Well, they're currently offering first appointments to people referred in 2019.

There is healthcare for trans identifying children.

What isn't allowed is unethical experimenting on children.

Almost without exception children identifying as trans have multiple complex issues and they should be treated before even looking at any possibility of trans in order to safeguard them.

HTH and corrects whatever nonsense you've been reading on Reddit this time. Meanwhile grown ups have looked at the actual evidence and said 'no'.

You really don't like that word do you?

Well a lot of people have to wait for elective treatment. And that is what it is.