Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

I really, really hope you do. I'm sure she's very real and will force us to do some sole searching when she puts her foot down.

So you don't wear women's clothes? Your mind went to shoe size rather than dress size?

What if Red had said she was 5' 2" and a size 14? My mind boggles 🤔

Pfft, yeah, I'm used to it.

It's interesting, mind you. I've been... I'd say, "pitied" a couple of times by women here, who thought they understood my situation and were sad for me as a result. But there was never any of the patronising, "I understand you better than you do, and I hope one day you'll be as enlightened as I am" BS Butterfly has been dishing out. Definitely a difference in approach. I wonder what it might be due to 🤔...

Butters seems to have a friend for all occasions.

I don't think you have to look far.

Ok I'll be sure to pass the message on to all my friends who have apparently failed the stereotype test.

Wait I thought we weren't about strict gendered stereotypes here? I just don't know what to think anymore!

I'm a woman if I have XX chromosomes unless I don't and grow up in a female body unless I don't and have a womb unless I don't and behave in stereotypically feminine ways about clothes unless I don't and have a particular hormonal profile unless I don't and where were the goalposts again today? I just want to keep all the other women in my life updated on the toilet prerequisites.

I'd probably read that as a clothes size.

Yeah, you say that now...

Easy to do when you make them up.

A man for all seasons.

Do point me in the direction of the love, acceptance and tolerance being shown by trans-identified men towards women fighting to protect our sex-based rights, because I certainly can't see much, if any. What I do see is a lot of tantrumming by people who have been sold the lie that they can claim a trans identity and expect to be treated by society as if they have actually become the other sex, which we all know isn't possible.

Women have campaigned and sacrificed for well over a century to gradually win the right to all those things men mostly take for granted - education, work commensurate with our talents and paid at the same rate as men, single-sex spaces, services and sports for reasons of privacy, dignity and safety, allowances made for the fact that women are the sex who bear and mostly bring up the next generation. So much oppression and suffering imposed on women because of our sex and when we manage to achieve a better situation for ourselves we are suddenly expected to share it with men who claim their inner womanly feelings outweigh their inescapably male bodies. And you have the unmitigated gall to equate all this with the homophobia and persecution of Section 28. How very male of you. 🙄

Oh is that one of the lesbians who says lesbians who don't want to date you are just threatened by your attractiveness? Or one of your totally chilled young relatives? Or your friend the long time MNer? You have so many friends and relations it's hard to keep up.

How have you been a totes passing transwoman since childhood and not realised that when women say I'm x height and size y they 100% always mean clothes size, not shoe size? Or than a slightly shorter than average woman is incredibly unlikely to have feet the size which is the biggest women's size in most shops?

This thread is my most favourite of all the threads.

No.

You are lashing out at me now because you realise you've made a mistake.

I know very few women indeed with size 8 feet. My friend with size 8 feet struggles to get shoes in her size.

She's not remotely near my 5'2" though.

I don't have a problem with women with size 8 feet. But really women of my size just don't have feet that size. It's unusual even in taller women.

Crikey the twisting and the turning and the tantrumming, all to avoid understanding what every five year old can tell you-what sex someone is

No. You're a woman if you are an adult human whose body is formed around the production of large gametes. That's it. Every woman who ever existed meets that criterion, and no man. It's OK, it's a category, that's all, and that's how categories work.

By the way, the distance from your wrist to your elbow is the length of your foot. Does your totally real 5'2" female friend with size 8 feet identify as an orangutan? Will she be able to get her arms off the floor enough to give us what for when you bring her on here?

I'm 5 foot 10 and a size 7 in shoes. I'm guessing Butters is 6 foot at least.

Oh gosh, does it matter if I do or don't wear clothes stereotypically associated with one gender or another? You seem very fixated on this...

You are welcome to think that if you want.

Given Butters problem with accepting reality, I do wonder...

You're showing how narrow your experience is here, mate.

Can we think that men aren't women?

I have to say, I've found it educational and eye opening. The claims of a PP likening what's currently happening in the UK to the holocaust is honestly not something I would believe people would say without reading it myself. It's one of the most repellent and self obsessed things I've read on the internet.

I know a lot of interestingly shaped people from many walks of life.

I think we're really seeing how narrow a lot of people's experiences on this thread are. It shouldn't be surprised, really.

And yet again, you're showing how your levels of condescending know no bounds.

I seriously think you're on the wind up here now. Mate.

My DD has always had massive feet, she's stopped growing now(thankfully) at size 9. She's also much taller than an average woman but even for her height that's a bigger than normal shoe size, and the biggest shoe size of any woman I've ever known. The idea of a woman near my height, with feet near the size of DDs, will never stop being funny.

Sure.

You never ever project. Especially when someone says 'No'.

You are genuinely hilarious.