Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

How many times have you been told that on MN?

Shall we all place our bets?

So as well as deeming everyone who disagrees with you to be a fascist, you find a list of clear questions, that you refuse to answer, to be obtuse?

Clearly you know how you're acting here. Do you think we can't see it too?

Please.

Answer.

The.

Questions.

Oh, so people don’t tell you to get in an oven several times a day then?

right oh

That about sums it up.

You missed the

"It's nooootttt fffffaaaaaiiiirrrrrrr" and stomping of feet though.

Oh and the 'well my friends say....'

I would advise extreme caution over allowing yourself to become a pet for the GC movement

Jesus Christ, the disdain and superiority you show to trans people who dare to disagree with you is absolutely jaw-dropping. "Genuine concerns", I'm sure.

No one believes you because you obsfucate and deflect every post, never offer evidence, and lie about some pretty basic fundamentals.

So, speaking of honesty and lying, how do you actually live as a transman?

Do you advise everyone you meet by way of introduction that you are a transman, otherwise you could be guilty of deceiving them?

Why do you still claim that identity if that means, in your words, that you are living a lie, and honesty is so important to you?

Remember folks.

It's women off MN, like Datun, that Butters is afraid of meeting.

I've known I was highly unlikely to ever become a biological mother since the age of eleven when I first became aware of the actual practical mechanics of transition.

I don't wanna be indelicate here, but it sounds like you are trying to 'tough love' me with stuff I obviously have known and accepted for several decades as a sort of vicarious self-teardown.

I'm sorry mate but I'm not interested in being used as a theraputic punchbag for your projections. If you actually want to talk about this stuff I'm happy to listen, but you are really coming across here as posturing for the sake of the lovebombing you'll get as your reward for the performance.

Was anyone after an example of how TRAs treat transpeople who don't toe the line? They're just so accepting and inclusive and diverse.

ooh.. did I miss that! Is Hatched afraid of meeting Datun? Blimey.

Alexa, what is transmaxxing?

Yes they do. As I have said. Quite clearly, I thought. Sometimes they mix it up a bit, you know. Vile memes, variations on a theme. Sometimes it's 'just' about being locked up and having the key thrown away. They love pedowashing and pervertwashing as well. Must get really boring to do it over and over.

Shall we circle the 'oh no they don't' 'oh yes they do' pantomime drain for a few more pages?

I am asking the poster to explain, given that they have said that:

1/ Trans people are living lies,
2/ That they they have been a transman for 13 years
3/ They value honesty.

How they square these 3 things with their stated identity as a transman.

This is all they have, folks.

There's nothing underneath it, no soul-searching or compassion, or care for equality.

It's writ larger than the sun. And I feel really pissed off on people like Seeth's behalf that they talk over them. (And the other TW that have posted sensitively on the subject).

Luckily most rational people are here to listen to those who are genuine.

Hatched is "deathly afraid" of meeting women who don't think men are woman. I've asked why, then, Hatched wishes to use female spaces and whether a third unisex space for all would be a solution - and if not, why not.

You can see how it's going.

Where did I claim that?

For random people: I present as a bearded, flat-chested woman and let them decide how they want to address me. I get about half-half, depending on whether they notice the beard or the general body shape first.

For people who need to know enough about me that it's relevant, I introduce myself as a transman.

"Why do you still claim that identity if that means, in your words, that you are living a lie, and honesty is so important to you?"

Because I also feel like I'm lying if I don't tell people I'm a man. My gender dysphoria has always revolved around two poles: how I see my body "inside my head", and a deep and tenacious feeling of lying if I present as a non-modified woman. So I'm stuck between two lies, and I deal with that situation as best I can - which means accepting said situation in the first place.

I'm saying I don't believe that you get told you'll be put in/to get in the ovens several times a day.

I don't believe you, and you've offered no proof.

Extraordinary claims require at least some evidence. If almost everything else you said wasn't silly or patiently untrue I'd maybe give the benefit of the doubt, but that's on you.

Hang on suggestions - have you taken these words
"What harms trans people is being encouraged to live a lie, to convince ourselves that we are not what we are, and that we are what we can never be."

and pretended that the person said
"Trans people are living lies" ?

I may have missed something and you may be referring to another post.

I see.

I mean, it is pretty enlightening that a male person with a transgender identity is telling a female person with a transgender identity how to approach life. And I mean 'enlightening' to reflect the vile misogyny that it really is.

And yet, what is remarkable is that this same male poster seems to need to tell female people that they lack the expertise that comes from actually having a life time of experience in interacting with the world as a female person.

Pretty standard, garden variety misogyny that is being plonked onto this thread.

I look forward to you getting a coherent answer to your question.

You've never been "highly unlikely" to ever become a biological mother. It was always impossible, from the moment you were conceived. See the difference?

This isn't tough love or whatever. I really don't care about that. I only care about speaking facts when discussing the rights of various groups.

I understand that feeling well and it took me a good year or so to get past it. I think I got very lucky with finding a great friendship group at a fortunate time and having a hugely supportive family.

It's not lying to be yourself and be perceived correctly as yourself - a tension that most non-trans people never even realise exists.

I hope it works out for you in the future!

Crikey. Well far be it from me etc

and yet the women of Mumsnet are the ones you’re terrified of running into 🤨