Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

It's pretty difficult to stop indiividuals from 'being present' at rallies, including ones you or I might disapprove of. But it's rather different when they are the ones brandishing the loud-hailer, like Sarah Jane!

I decry any incitement to violence regardless of the inciter's sex at birth or gender identity.

That's very nice of you. However, that person's gender identity certainly seems to dictate whether or not you're able to see the parallels between that and far right authoritarianism.

It also seems to dictate who you think should be afraid or not. TRAs routinely threaten to rape and kill us, in fact "Be Afraid" is the new motto from the latest moobs-out demo. You haven't said a word about how we should feel about this, but you claim to be "deathly afraid" of meeting one of us.

I'm always impressed whenever I see another person foolish enough to subject themselves to the hostility that posting on here invites.

I'll leave the sock puppetting to you - I don't have time for that nonsense, sorry.

(People) who have been family friends for years and they said 'ohhh no, this is very familiar. When this happens it's usually because they fancy you and hate you because of it. It's like upside down straight panic! run away!!!'

I believe that 🧚🏻‍♂️ Is referring to men finding 🧚🏼‍♀️ Very attractive, and so running away….or perhaps it’s straight women fancying 🧚🏼‍♀️ And so thinking that they must be lesbians ….and running away in panic.

Though I could be wrong, and pp have interpreted this modest declaration correctly, and it is one of 🧚🏼‍♀️ many lesbian friends who are saying that lesbians , that is : same sex attracted women are panting for 🧚🏼‍♀️ and so must take to their heels in panic.

‘Mirror, mirror , on the wall…’

You know, Butterfly, if you're deathly afraid of meeting a woman who doesn't want men in her spaces, your best bet would seem to be to use the gents...

Did I read a comment that said they've 'trans'ed the incels now. 🤣

I don't support that kind of harmful behaviour and never have done.

I am a survivor of sexual assault and can't stand being in the presence of anyone who makes those kinds of threats.

I'm also fucking terrified of anyone who holds trans-hostile views and avoid them wherever possible - a holdover from my childhood where avoidance and invisibility was the only way to escape.

The problem with - in a few years it will all be behind us - is the other post that said the NHS is paying for 700 men a year to have their penises removed. Harm from horror surgery will still be there after the rejection of biological reality stops being faddish.

In one sense, this whole catastrophe will never be over. We have decades yet of children permanently harmed by this ideology trying to make their way through life. There will be people who reach old age childless because they were sterilised before they truly comprehended what they were doing. There would be people who are never going to be born because of this.

Oh, and @ButterflyHatched , your comment on VE Day:
Commemorating the close of a years-long ordeal triggered by fascists demonstrating that asking nicely sometimes doesn't work.
VE Day did not commemorate 'the close of a years-long ordeal triggered by fascists'. The war went on in Asia until 15th August 1945, and even after that, people were dying in their droves there of starvation and disease, caused by the war.

Nobody needs to preach to me about Fascism: my father's family was at the receiving end and I grew up on the sort of horror stories that make me immune to men whining about how being banned from the ladies 'erases' them.

Edited for typo.

This is a great point that I don't believe that poster even considered.

If you want to avoid women who are hostile towards males in their spaces, then stay out of those spaces. Absolute no-brainer there.

And if you are against violent rhetoric, don't ignore its parallel with authoritarianism or women's fear when they are subjected to it. TRAs have told us they'll shoot, stab and hang us. What are you worried that a woman who doesn't believe a man is a woman will do to you?

Wow! When I posted about my experience that the trans community is very much not accepting, tolerant or loving, I certainly didn't expect not just one, but two trans people to rush in to provide a demonstration!

So there you have it: even within the community, put a toe out of line, and be accused of being detrans.

Which I'm not, for the record. Been living as trans for 13 years and still going as strong as ever.

Not a universal experience at all. The risk of getting the shit kicked out of you if the wrong kind of man is in there is somewhat reduced if you aren't trans - that's not to say there is no risk at all, of course - we're still talking about a woman taking the risk of using male facilities.

Awesome, good for you. How is Mumsnet working out for you?

Why do you need a space away from men to be safe if women don't?

Are you working yourself up to a 'it's trans people who are the REAL Nazis!' argument? I think you're better than that.

You're the one who said that it's far right to say that men aren't women.

Fancy answering the questions?

Women do need a space away from men. That's...that's the point. That's why being ejected from that space after using it since childhood is so terrifying.

When you use those spaces, they are not spaces away from men. You want more of a right to get away from men than women.

And you claim to be deathly afraid of meeting women who don't want you there, so why on earth do you use them?

A third space would appear to be the solution. Is that acceptable? If not, why not?

Thank you for asking! Pretty good actually. See, thanks to them, I've finally been able to lay down the increasing cognitive dissonance between what I wanted to believe (all trans people are nice, they just want to get on with their lives, anyone who disagrees with that is just mean, and so on) and the hard facts (the intolerance I had personally experienced in the community, the aggressiveness of some TRAs, the loss of women's rights, etc...) Now I can finally rest upon the facts as I have always preferred to do. It's very liberating.

Sure Jan.

Christ on a bike, if this thread doesn't prove the self absorbed nature of TRA's, then I don't know what does.

Touched a nerve?! 😂

Interesting. So when you see all the threads here hero worshiping Posie Parker / Kelly Jay Keen, who is advising everyone not to employ you or rent a room from them because you are trans, that doesn't worry you?

And when you read here that you are mentally ill and spending your life deceiving and lying to others, that doesn't bother you?

And when see the threads here linking to news articles where trans people are talking about leaving the country because they are frightened, and you see the posts here on FWR saying 'good riddance' and 'let me try to find my tiny violin' you don't feel any empathy for trans people like you?

Actually, I think people have less and less patience with each passing day...