Is there a name for this?

[Confusedpleaseeducateme]

Pardon my ignorance. But can anyone help? Genuine question. Just a NC

I say that I'm GC as I don't believe you can change sex. However I strongly believe you should go where your genitals match. E. G. If you've COMPLETELY transitioned then use that toilet.
By all means say you're a different gender (and I'll just roll my eyes internally) but personally I don't have a problem if a true TW uses the ladies facilities. I just don't want to share female spaces with a penis!

I don't believe TWAW. I believe they are TW.

Does that make sense? Please be gentle... First time posting on this board but been reading a long time but don't recall seeing anyone saying anything about this? But I could just be being dull... Menopausal brain!

You can’t really transition to the opposite sex, though, can you?
Hormones, cosmetic surgery, etc - they’re still a man underneath all the artifice.

A neo-vagina (created by vaginoplasty) is not a vagina and a phallo (created by phalloplasty) is not a penis. No-one ever completely transitions as it is impossible for mammals to change sex.

And most trans identified men keep their penis, by the way.

If a man has his penis cut off, he is still a man.

Toilets are sex segregated - not genital segregated - because women need space away from men when they're lowering their knickers. Because a significant percentage of men predate on women, whether or not they ( the men) have a penis.

You could maybe describe that belief as transmedicalist. Someone who believes in medical gatekeeping and that you actually have to fully transition to be transsexual.

How are women supposed to know which of these men does or does not have a penis OP?

You haven't really thought this through. And a man without a penis is still a man and has no right to be in female only spaces anyway.

I see what you're saying Confusedpleaseeducateme but if you break down what you are suggesting - men who ID as women AND who've had surgery are OK to use the women's toilet - you come up against some problems:

First of all, even post surgery, they are still male. So if the law says only females should use the women's toilets, that means that male genitalia or no male genitalia, they are not allowed use the women's toilet.

Secondly, it's frequently asserted on here - sorry I don't have any proper reference - that most transwomen do not have surgery, so they have their male genitals, and therefore, by your logic, have to use the men's toilet.

Thirdly, can you imagine having to sort out which of the transwomen still had their male genitalia, and which of them hadn't, and therefore, according to you, should be allowed into the women's toilets?

It's all waaaaay to complicated!

Current toilet arrangements are OK for the vast majority of the population.

The tried-and-tested arrangement of men's, women's [defined by biology] and disabled toilets has worked well for ages, there's no real need to mess with it just to placate a tiny tiny percentage of the population.

I call this "almost hard-core gc".

We've all hit this point.

You'll soon have the delight of listening to a few of the individuals you describe or watching their long limbs beat a woman at boxing, fencing, swimming or cycling and you'll be at everest.

However I strongly believe you should go where your genitals match.

Ah, the blissful innocence of someone who hasn't seen the actual results of GRS.

Stop and think about what you're saying for a second - how well do you really think a vagina can be modelled by an inverted penis, or a penis modelled by a roll of arm flesh?

Sex change, or "transition" is a fantasy.

And the genital origami changes nothing else about a person. I can assure you from everything we've seen the last decade that men with inverted penises are definitely not less prone to being extremely weird and creepy towards women than other men. Quite the contrary.

So granting them access doesn't make sense in terms of reality, and it shouldn't be offered as a reward for performing the origami. Because it's unethical to encourage people to harm themselves.

I don't think so. Even if you got another 4 legs sewn on, it doesn't make you a spider. Therefore men remain men even if they chop their knobs off, and should use the male loo accordingly.

@Confusedpleaseeducateme, when a male person in a dress walks into the women's toilets, how do you know whether they have a penis or not?

Well, put bluntly, it does not matter what you believe or think in relation to this because as the Supreme Court judgement made abundantly clear, the protected character of sex means biological sex. This means people who are born female.

The Supreme Court judgement also went into a lot of detail about why it would not work to allow one category of men into same sex spaces and not another. The judgement focused on men with a GRC, but the arguments hold true for any subset of men. Basically if you allow a man with a GRC into a same sex space, then you are discriminating against other men by not allowing them in. So you have a mixed sex space. The SC judgement also laid out the times and places when it was proportionate to have same sex space.

The judgement also provides the legal history of the protected characteristic of sex and why it matters. It’s worth a read and very clear.

Wow. So many responses already!

So one more question.. If someone were to ask me my stance in a few words how should I reply? That was more my question tbh.

But I do appreciate the responses and some very valid points. More my point about genitals is my very basic thought process of no penis... Less chance of rape. Perhaps ignorant and very simplified.

I know the statistics of men who actually go through with the full reassignment are very very low. I guess I was over simplyfying again. I have many thoughts and really could discuss this til the cows come home and typing it online makes it hard to quantify without waffling on forever!

Unfortunately for those few who genuinely have gender dysmorphia the many have abused the right to self ID and made their life far more difficult.

Honestly not here to be goady. Genuinely interested and there's some new terms here for me to look into so everyday is a school day!

I do wonder why people don’t read the judgement themselves but come on here and expect women to waste their time educating them.

How lovely you are.

I'm asking for help. Which many other posters have provided.

Feel free to not post. I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head!

https://supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2024-0042

There’s a summarised version too.

This is not a hive mind. We don't do the labeling, flag waving thing. Call yourself whatever you like...

The name doesn't matter.

Hmm that's the second time it's grabbed the wrong quote. Sorry that was for op.

That's helpful.

Thank you

My maths is as bad as my arachnophobia - but unless you have four legs already, I think you'd have to have another SIX sewn on.

I realise that as a poodle you'd only need four extra legs, but most of us only have the standard issue two

Maybe if spiders only has six legs, they wouldn't move so fast, which might make them a bit less😨

I was counting the arms 😅😅

Watch a couple of Helen Joyce interviews, is my advice.
She’ll really get you thinking things through in an elegant way.

@Confusedpleaseeducateme

My stance in four words: Mammals cannot change sex.

Remember this simple truth and whatever obfuscation is thrown at you, you will always be grounded in reality.

The possibility of rape is not the only reason why women don't want men in female spaces though. Men (with or without a penis) can do plenty of things to make women feel uncomfortable/vulnerable even if you don't take into account the many other types of sexual assault or sexual harassment.