TW who supports the SC ruling - AMA

[VanishingVision]

Hello! I was thinking of doing this post for a little while now as the previous posts doing this by the rather wonderful trans men here were really interesting but I didnt want to take up too much space here or take any attention away from much more important things here than what I have to say.

But I figured to just go for it before I have a big old break from the Internet for a while.

So like the title says, I'm a transwoman who accepts the SC ruling: ask me anything if you'd like to and I'll do my best to answer.

A woman cannot commit rape. Hth.

@VanishingVision

"surely if you want to fight for trans rights you should be able to clearly define what it is"

That's such an important point! You can't fight for a group's rights if you can't define what that group is. That was the entire point all along: that the term "woman" needed to be defined in order to properly defend women's rights. And now it's time for trans activists to properly define what "trans" means - that is, if they truly want to defend trans people.

It's an open forum, people are allowed to comment and join in.

And I said that because I consider myself to be in the middle. I care very deeply about the women in my life, I care very deeply about the trans peope in my life and yes I care about myself. I also care about the safety of women and children in general and I care about about trans people in general too, despite what you may think. I feel in the middle because I want to get to a place of safety for everyone that can and HAS been affected by the trans rights debate.

Hey, at least that's one slur I'm free from. I've certainly had a few chucked my way in my years.

Can I at least be a 'TERF inclusive radical trans person' ? 🤣

@VanishingVision I was for many years a professional in sexual and domestic abuse working mostly with women and girls.

With my counselling hat on, (not a therapist) i would say from your descriptions of your experiences, that, rejecting your physical form, and transitioning was a form of disassociation, from the violence, abuse and emotional neglect that you have experienced.

That you were able to reflect on and find peace in your new self “actualisation” is interesting to me.

You are only young yet and i picked up that you found nothing to associate your dysphoria with your experiences.

But as most victims of violence can attest to you will have ongoing needs for support as life unfolds for you, and other memories are visited upon you.

Our brains are amazing things and can protect us from memories that can cause us to be unable to function.

Please make sure you look after your mental health and yourself, and that you get support when needed. Dipping in and out of therapy as you go along so to speak is a good thing.

This is what I think but they won't go this way, sadly.

I see, so we're in agreement about most kinds of GD being a signifier to others that a person is trans, where we disagree is on the last two. I don't think what you are describing is dysphoria and I don't think, at least in my experience, that trans people take the decision to transition just because of social pressure. It's a complex decision and many factors lead one to that decision. I think we should err on the side of not medical gatekeeping because it's not cut and dry for most trans people.

I'm also in agreement with you that it is weird - like I can't understand what it's like to not experience crippling bottom dysphoria. But I would also definitely consider her trans because her gender identity doesn't match her ASAB. Same with your trans masc friend. I think we're on the same page that people are trans when they make the decision that they are and should be treated in accordance with that decision. A newly cracked egg is no less trans for having just started their journey.

I also agree that my enby friend isn't a transsexual, and I think they'd probably baulk at that if I did say they were. I am not transsexual either despite our trans journeys looking from the outside to be similar. But I don't agree with the notion that the struggle my enby friend has isn't the same as yours or mine. Like they are affected by a system that says that there are two sexes only and you are legally treated as the one you were born as. Their identity is entirely erased by this ruling as the system offers no space for enby identities to exist. Practically speaking, they might be less affected - but when it comes to things like markers on passports, they are just as affected by not being able to get one that confirms who they are as I am. I am not suggesting you aren't allowed to have an opinion on the ruling - the reason I'm even having this conversation with you is because I want to understand it given it is very different from mine and suggests a very different experience in society.

You misgendered @TransSister's sister by referring to her with male pronouns. I assumed that was because she also used the incorrect ones and you were following suit, but wanted to point out that this might be a reason you struggle to engage with other trans people where it's really important not to make that kind of mistake in one of the few spaces we can be safe. All trans people relate on the obvious level that our experiences are shared in a lot of ways, but I think that there's a strong difference between sharing an identity with Blaire White and saying that she should be able to freely engage within trans spaces without pushback.

I think your last paragraph speaks to the fundamental disagreement we have - what are we resetting back too and how are we doing that? Because from my perspective, a bunch of us just had our existence in society restricted out of nowhere and it's not like the debate got less hot as a result. I'd argue that we were doing a lot better when our lives weren't being treated as a political football by hack politicians who can't actually improve things so instead need to scapegoat, but I don't think that genie can be let out of the bottle.

So we should free all the women rapists in prison for being wrongly imprisoned then?

I'll be honest, that sounds way more insane to me than we should send women to women's prisons and men to men's prisons regardless of if they are trans or cis.

@VanishingVision ha ha How about sex realist, I like Debbie Hayton, many here do not trust him, which is fair enough. If you e mail him he will respond to you.

I would love to see transexuals like you start to network and find your own tribe.

Rape requires a penis. Women (the biological kind) can sexually assault but they can't rape.

@ChirpyFinch the act of rape requires a penis. There is no biological woman in this country who has been convicted of rape. And a vanishingly small amount of women who have been convicted of sexual offences.

Right, but I am struggling to understand how you think safety is achieved when trans women are sent to the wrong bathroom and trans men are told they can't go to any bathroom. I just find the argument that it is somehow safer completely baffling. As with your own experience, my trans identity didn't prevent my SA. It wasn't like the guy went "oh you've got a dick so you're a man. Sorry to have made that mistake buddy!". I also find it completely absurd to claim that this also makes cis women safer as if there's this invisible forcefield that prevents predatory men from just going wherever they want. I mean, there's literally an open thread on this forum of a man doing exactly that just because he was desperate.

So I'd like to ask a very simple question. Is @VanishingVision a woman and what pronouns should we use for her?

Right ok so semantics aside. Do you think a woman who sexually assaulted other women should be imprisoned in a men's prison by virtue of posing a threat to other inmates?

Myself and my therapists concluded it was unrelated to my dysphoria as the dysphoria began before I was sexually assaulted the first time. I did go through some mental abuse as a child though but we still concluded it was unrelated to dysphoria. But I absolutely respect what you've said here.

Don't worry, I absolutely do persue some therapy still 😊

@ChirpyFinch

"Like they are affected by a system that says that there are two sexes only and you are legally treated as the one you were born as."

Just wanted to point that it's biology which says that there are two sexes only. "The system" only bothers about that binary because one of those sexes (men) systematically oppresses the other (women), and so women need special protections against men.

No, because she'd be at risk from men. Biological men in a woman's prison aren't going to be at risk from women in the same way.

There are also far, far, far fewer women than men who commit sexual offences so it's not a major issue.

I've said multiple times on this thread, I consider myself a trans woman and that its different to being a woman, an adult natal female. I'd obviously prefer she/her that makes sense to me but I really don't care if people call me he/him, it's not going to ruin my day.
IRL I don't get misgendered when im going about my life, but this is a GC space and likely people will use pronouns according to their sex and think of me as male, a man. If I was sensitive to that then I wouldn't be here.

Im imploring you to pick up a biology textbook that goes past year 5, and maybe then a stats text book that can teach you what a bimodal distribution of data is.

I think you answered your own question there. 😂

OP is a man and so are you, and i do not do pronouns, just as i do not say may the lord be with you or recite the Lord’s Prayer, i do not believe in transgenderism. Or God.

Having said that you are a human being as is OP and i will gave care and respect for the way you and others choose to live your lives.

As long as you give me the same courtesy.

Sorry, but the preceding posts about rape and the law are slightly off the mark. There are women in prison in the UK for rape. A woman who assists a man to rape is charged with rape. It's horrific to get one's head round, but here's an example. Only men can commit the act; anyone helping is also guilty of the offence. Like murder, I think? Any lawyers on here to clarify?https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/17/sarahhall

Right but as you are all so quick to point out, it doesn't matter how few trans people there are relative to the rest of society (far, far, far fewer if you would), all trans women must be removed on the grounds that one could be a predator. I am not at all clear on when this logic doesn't equally, if not more because we know that they've got a history of it, to women inmates that have committed SA?

Sex is binary, not a bimodal distribution.

Proof is: show me someone who isn't male or female. For the record and for example: XXY is male.

@busybusybusy2015 yes in the sense they facilitate a crime,

Many of these women were in fact victims of rape gangs, themselves and turned on other women to protect themselves.

Square the circle for me. In what way are you giving us care and respect by incorrectly deciding for us what our gender is?