TW who supports the SC ruling - AMA

[VanishingVision]

Hello! I was thinking of doing this post for a little while now as the previous posts doing this by the rather wonderful trans men here were really interesting but I didnt want to take up too much space here or take any attention away from much more important things here than what I have to say.

But I figured to just go for it before I have a big old break from the Internet for a while.

So like the title says, I'm a transwoman who accepts the SC ruling: ask me anything if you'd like to and I'll do my best to answer.

Nah, I'm good. You might be better off doing this on Bloosky or Reddit.

I'm wondering, how much push back do you get from others when you say this? It's just so much vitriol generally from a lot of other TW that I wonder how you fare?

Thanks!

@INeedAPensieve So I tried interacting in some online trans spaces shortly after I started interacting here (a couple days after the ruling) and I was blocked instantly from them for basically telling other trans people to 'calm down and think about it' after getting some abuse but that isn't anything new for me if I actually try to interact with the 'trans community', I've normally been treated badly in the past by the community for kind of being 'in the middle' anyway on trans issues and been called a 'pick me' and all that stuff.

In person, I've been really selective with who I've talked to about it. A younger TM I work with who doesn't agree with the ruling but he does see my point that TRAs created the mess, but I don't have many trans friends anyway not locally at least.

Thank you for coming on here. It would be interesting to know firstly, why you support the ruling and secondly, what impact you think it will have on your life

That's a shame, it seems hard to try and have nuanced conversations. I guess reading all these different threads you'll notice how often women get shouted down. I think so many are just tired of it now. I had quite a fraught conversation with one of my female friends tonight who is "bekind" and tried to argue with me that sex is a spectrum. Most vulnerable etc etc. Does that not annoy you? Being made out to be in need of being mollycoddled and special all the time? It doesn't really fit the picture as so many trans women in particular are very aggressive. So not really vulnerable. Although I hear that phrase uttered more by females. Which I guess must be our social conditioning to always be kind. Especially to male people. Do you notice that?

Hello and thanks for posting.

Why do you feel motivated to present as the opposite sex?

I do not want to be hostile, so i am going to believe your post is genuine for now.

My question therefore is, have you considered that you might have a psychiatric disorder and that you might benefit from in depth therapy to establish why you disassociate with your own body? And that is why you recognise the SC ruling

So I support the ruling for a number of reasons because but mostly I think this 'debate' has gotten so toxic and I think it needs a reset (but it seems unlikely now) to restore some balance.

I think that trans activists have severely hurt women and their rights and have continously just tried to take more and more, plus the trying to redefine how everyone uses language and thinks aboit sex. But also, I think they've hurt trans people along the way, they continously gaslight their own community.

I dont think it will impact my life all that much, honestly. Other than through the heat in the general narrative.

The debate hasn’t “gotten so toxic”. It would be more accurate to say men who pretend to be women have become increasingly toxic in their behaviour and attitudes

I do notice this and honestly I hate it. It's one thing to have empathy and care about others and wanna be supportive, but I really can't stand this treating trans people like they're made of glass act and will break at any point. I certainly won't.

So I think most women actually still imagine the average TW to be a relatively feminine or at least androgynous HSTS type and that's perhaps why they're more likely to do the 'be kind' thing but we all know here that isnt the case. I wouldn't say most TW are generally vulnerable in the way they're made out to be constantly, especially not the angry ones shouting about 'punching terfs'

Thank you for coming on here. I have two questions:

Do you use the women's toilets and if so has there been any obvious egative reaction to your presence there? And same question for if you use the mens.

Also, do you believe that trans women are women or that trans women are trans women?

I wouldn't assume any hostility anyway 😊

I did yes. I went through two different psychiatrists before I was diagnosed with GD and finally decided to transition (and two failed attempts to go through the process also) and I actually had to get a 2nd GD diagnosis when I changed my private health service (as the original DR i used was discredited) and they explored further whether it could be due to other reasons I.e trauma etc. Still a garden variety transsexual it seems!

I dont think that has anything to do with why I accept the ruling, i think I accept that on a situational and practical basis.

Hello!

Sooo I don't really consider it 'presenting' as the opposite sex because the way I dress hasn't really changed all that much, I had a kind of androgynous style and long hair anyway and I still bascally wear the same thing.

I've tried to change my sex characteristics because of severe dysphoria towards them, that's my motivation to transition. The dissociation from my sex characteristics.

I used to use the women's toilets (no other spaces), I was convinced by women in my life that I should use them and that it was correct for me to do so about 8 months or so after i transitioned but after I started consuming more GC material last year I more or less tried to avoid using any single sex toilets at all. In january I started using the mens again, actually.
I'd like to think I never made anyone uncomfortable, I never had a negative interaction using the women's but I accept if a woman did notice that i was trans then it is likely she may have been hesitant to say something out of women being generally more polite and out of concern for how I'd react.
I've mostly found using the mens funny (and smelly), cause I have been told a few times it's the 'wrong one love' and one time i wenr to a gig and a drunk guy made some remarks towards me another guy told him to 'fuck off'. Ironically though, a man i went on a date with last year tried to force me into the mens to have sex with him (i.e assault me) whilst I was trying to avoid using both!

I consider trans women to be trans women and not women, its different and I've always seen it as much. If I'm going to get real clinical about it, I think i simply just see myself as a transsexual.

I'd say that is correct. I guess I'm prone to seeing it that way as I've tried really hard to live my life outside of the debate and away from the media and politics, honestly until a year ago I wasn't even aware of just how bad things were.

Thank you, for responding. Did you get to the bottom of why you rejected your own body parts? I do find it troubling that a mental health condition (the rejection of healthy body) is being treated by experimental surgeries. I am wondering why it wasn't enough to just accept being non-conforming to sex stereotypes.

We explored sexual trauma as a possible main cause (though the events that would have caused this happened after I started experiencing GD) but that was ruled out. Also internalised homophobia, as I am attracted to men. Also ruled out.

I think in my case, it's a 'it is what it is' with my dysphoria and that it required transition and that was correct for myself thats where we got to and i accept that fully. I can't speak for others because I think there are different kinds of gender dysphoria and I actually think it should return to being diagnosed with transsexualism if transition is deemed the correct course.

I absolutely respect what you've said here, but you say 'rejection of a healthy body' but I'm actually far healthier now. My mental health is better, my physical health is better and I take better care of myself as I've had to come to know my body really well now. I can't say that I know what will happen in 10/20 years but I know that things are better now and that I made the right choice.

Do you, under any circumstances, support medical transition for children?

Good luck on your thread @VanishingVision!

Let me know if you'd prefer me not to chip in on answers too. Regardless it's your thread and I don't want to muddy the waters.

@CraftandGlamour
I am wondering why it wasn't enough to just accept being non-conforming to sex stereotypes.
I'm also a TW, I feel similarly to what VanishingVision put. I wanted to say that this quote seems to be a very common reaction I have read in general, but completely misses the fact that some of us do really seem to have gender dysphoria (more like dysmorphia) more-or-less exclusively due to our anatomy. In my case, the thing I feel the need to change is my body, not my 'gendered presentation'.

I do authentically like my post-transition dress style in a way I never did before, transition has liberated me to dress how I want. BUT, changing style did nothing for the distress I feel at my anatomy. That distress is the thing I wanted to transition to alleviate, and ultimately why I did. I do personally view it as a somewhat-extreme treatment for a mental health condition. If a simple, effective alternative treatment were available, I'd gladly have taken it. Upending my whole life was not fun!

I also have no good explanation for why my gender dysphoria manifest, it started in early childhood and despite long discussions on the topic with family we can't see any 'trigger' e.g. abuse. It is what it is.

Will you show the way and purposely use the men’s loos?

Do you think you’ll get push back in there?

To my mind true “trans allies,” the men, should be welcoming and supporting trans identified men into their spaces.

I know Miranda Yardley has been playing on a men’s rugby team for a while and was welcomed.

it’s just occurred to me that actually men who argue that trans identified males should not use their loos are being exclusionary and aren’t sticking up for them enough to ensure there IS no danger.

lets face it, other men can be attacked in men’s loos, as can younger vulnerable boys.

Was there a particular event that made you aware of how bad things were?

And were you aware of the 'no debate' culture that persisted for years?

Do you think there is a trans community?

I tend to think of communities as groups of people who get together and discuss & participate in community interests.

Is that happening? Are different opinions allowed?

It does feel to me that in recent years a small, vocal, aggressive group have claimed the idea of there being a 'community' and that they speak for all.

I have a very specific body dysphoria that I can pin point to certain events and experiences in my childhood. Quite a young age too. For example, specific realisations in year 1.* I’m very observant and socially aware/ sensitive. But I also worked out in my 20s that it was a perspective of my own perception and would worsen when I was under stress, which I understood to be about gaining some sort of control. It’s slightly OCDish i think. I’ve never been diagnosed at all but came to realisations via academic experiences and studies. And then various bits on TV and radio over the years.

A couple of years ago there was a programme or series about body dysphoria on radio 4 which explored the current approach of cbt and not using surgery as it was known that surgery did not alleviate the distress or hyperfocus, which would often then move on to something else.

I really believe that GD is very similar - but so much harder in some ways to avoid once the seed has been set, as society is extremely gender stereotyped AND now the condition of trans is so very normalised, accepted and believed by society to exist and require physical treatment.

I also find it so at odds with other movements around body positivity, which should be actively railing against body dysmorphia, especially for people with facial disfigurements

a very large driver is the very visually obsessed society we have today, which is completely saturated by visual media and imagery of perfection.

perfectionism can be linked to obsessional approaches, control and distress. We are such social creatures it’s very hard not to compare ourselves constantly to what we see. In the past we would have seen very few different people day to day and very little human imagery, if any.

Humans are also easily influenced by tribal trends. in the past that would have united small groups. Now it’s political.

the narrative needs to be reset. Somehow.

*in that same y1 class, a boy we played with was teased for playing with the girls. One day we found him sobbing wising he was a girl.

Are the any organisations that support sex-realist transpeople? The equivalent of LGBA?

I think transpeople who asked for accommodations that minimally affect others would get a lot of support. Such as:

Requirements for employers of a certain size to have unisex toilets.
NHS records to accurately record sex and gender as potentially different.
Exemptions for trans police officers from carrying out strip searches.
Better research on the long term effects of surgery and hormones.

My question is what sex marker does your passport have? And are you nervous travelling internationally that this may cause you problems (eg if it says M do you dress more masculine when travelling, or if it says F do you worry that is your sec is accurately perceived this may cause border officials to think the passport may be forged?)