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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lineker 'Trans people are some of the most persecuted people on the planet'

174 replies

IDareSay · 15/05/2025 12:25

Just stick to bloody football Gary.

Oliver Brown in The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/05/15/gary-lineker-interview-gaza-transgender-america-bbc-motd/

“One other area where Lineker has been noticeably silent is a subject where centrist-dad equivocations are difficult: men masquerading in sport as women. This has been front-page news in his own realm, with the Football Association forced this month to ban males from all levels of the female game, honouring the Supreme Court’s ruling that the definition of a woman was based on biological sex. And yet Lineker has consistently swerved it. When his podcast, The Rest Is Football, tried a public question-and-answer experiment last November, Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies and hundreds of other women asked him what he thought of the FA banning a teenager – revealed by The Telegraph last weekend as Cerys Vaughan – for asking a transgender opponent: “Are you a man?” Even under pressure from a nine-time Wimbledon singles champion and a celebrated Olympic swimmer, he neglected to engage. Why?
“Ugh,” he sighs, slumping so far forward in his chair he nearly hits the table. “You can’t cover that subject properly in a post. It’s too nuanced. I don’t actually think, in terms of sport, that it will ever be a real issue. Sport, as it’s already doing, will sort it out and work out rules. Like they did in boxing, when they realised they couldn’t have heavyweights against little fellas.”
Is it not blindingly obvious, however, that sport will not simply “sort it out”? It has taken many determined female campaigners a punishingly long time to undo the damage of gender ideology, compelling sports to prioritise fairness for women rather than vacuous mantras about inclusion. Amid broad acceptance that the rights of half the population should trump the view of a small, vocal minority of men that they are entitled to colonise women’s sport, Lineker makes it clear where his sympathies lie. “They’re some of the most persecuted on the planet, trans people. You’ve got to be very careful not to have bigoted views on that. I genuinely feel really badly for trans people. Imagine going through what they have to go through in life. Is there even any issue? It’s the same swimmer, the same weightlifter, the same boxer. They’re the only people I ever see.”

Lineker’s perspective here is myopic. The three examples he raises – American swimmer Lia Thomas, New Zealand weightlifter Laurel Hubbard, and Algerian boxer Imane Khelif, not transgender but permitted to win gold as a woman at the Paris Olympics despite sex tests indicating the presence of male chromosomes – are indeed well-publicised. But they are far from the only ones he could cite, with a recent report by Reem Alsalem, the United Nations special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, documenting how governing bodies’ failures to act had led to more than 600 female athletes around the world losing 890 medals in 29 different sports.
In his eyes, only cases at elite level matter. “We’ve got the Women’s Euros in the summer. Let’s see if there’s one issue – I don’t think there is. Are you telling me that there are many people who pretend to be women just so they’re going to be good at sport?” The desire of some males to receive affirmation as female can be a powerful motivating force, I argue. “It’s so complex,” Lineker says. “I see both sides to a degree.””

OP posts:
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ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 12:03

EsmeQuibbles · 20/05/2025 11:46

Does anyone remember Chloe Kelly celebrating England's Euro win by taking off her shirt and running round the pitch in a substantial sports bra and shorts?

The @Lionesses have only gone and done it, and Kelly is England’s heroine, bra none.

A great win, but his tweet was fixated on her tits.

Edited

Oh God, you can see him thinking, "hur hur, wot a joke, shows I've got a sense of humour and appreciate wimmin but I'm also one of the blokes, really funny and down to earth but likes boobs coz I'm real and HUR HUR".

He sure knows who the women are when it suits him.

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 09:27

I think Lineker's motivation for getting involved in topics such as Gaza and trans rights is that he is struggling in his later years to find his relevance.

After a football career where he was lauded as one of England's greatest footballers he then morphed into an extremely well paid "National treasure" as a BBC sports commentator.

However the media attention and spotlight for this role has faded over the years as he simply became the ex footballer who hosts Match of the Day".

He therefore waded in to controversial topics such as Gaza and trans rights to get back that media attention and spot light that he clearly craves.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 22/05/2025 13:24

He made a long virtue signalling statement about gay rights but hosted the Qatar world cup anyway and took the money. A hideous hypocrite.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/06/2025 19:37

Lalgarh · 13/06/2025 19:28

Referenced on Dead Ringers just now.

You could have heard a pin drop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002dc9n?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Yeah. ‘Gary’s’ silence was deafening!

BoreOfWhabylon · 13/06/2025 21:29

It's happening - people are starting to laugh at the nonsense.

TheKeatingFive · 13/06/2025 21:40

BoreOfWhabylon · 13/06/2025 21:29

It's happening - people are starting to laugh at the nonsense.

This is a great sign

BoreOfWhabylon · 13/06/2025 21:50

This is the first episode Jon Holmes has produced. He also does The Skewer. Hopefully a new era.

nauticant · 13/06/2025 22:30

Yes, I think Holmes was behind the comedy segment that Gary Lineker has a great deal to say about everything but when it comes to male people in women's competitive sports, he suddenly has no words.

The creator and long-time producer of the programme, Bill Dare, died in an accident a few months back. So in the credits earlier, while Dare was still credited as creator, Jon Holmes is now the producer, at least for today's episode. Holmes is very critical about lots of witless progressive ideas. (By the way, I don't for one moment think Dare supported genderism, from what I knew of him he was far too critically minded to do that, but he was a supreme operator within the BBC comedy ecosystem and highly motivated to maintain his influence.)

Holmes' fingerprints in today's episode weren't just about Lineker. There was another segment about how Dr Who is now lazy, smug, woke rubbish, extremely satisfied with itself.

Gattopardo · 14/06/2025 00:18

I thought Dead Ringers was absolutely great tonight. And very brave to include the Lineker/Rio skit. It did feel like a watershed. There was also a WTF moment relating to Doctor Who. I was genuinely surprised.

Plus, Eau de Farage was genius.

Gattopardo · 14/06/2025 00:22

Sorry, @nauticant I somehow missed your post before posting mine - agree with what you wrote.

i thought it was also generally a good observation on the inanity of a lot of what passes for media ‘content’ these days. The popular, self-promoting podcasters also got a rough ride.

I feel they will get a lot of hurty feelz complaints though.

EmilieDuChatelet · 14/06/2025 10:02

I was listening to Dead Ringers by chance and heard the sketch. loved it! Also enjoyed the House of Farage perfume house skit. 🤣

Lalgarh · 14/06/2025 10:11

Jordan Grey used to be a scriptwriter on the Now Show. Might have been on dead ringers previously as well. Wasn't on the credits this week, so I don't think this is necessarily some long term policy position

musicalfrog · 14/06/2025 10:17

Thanks for flagging - just had a listen. Brilliant!

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 14/06/2025 10:28

It is definitely a sign that the tide is turning -I can't imagine that sketch getting the green light a couple of years ago.

nauticant · 14/06/2025 10:29

2016 was a key date in Holmes' journey of disillusionment over progressive over-reach:

https://metro.co.uk/2016/10/02/radio-show-presenter-jon-holmes-accuses-bbc-of-racism-over-axe-6165930/

Here's confirmation about Holmes taking over (and as we heard yesterday taking the show in the new direction):

https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/news/8360/dead-ringers-returns-with-jon-holmes-as-producer/

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/06/2025 18:47

Lalgarh · 14/06/2025 10:11

Jordan Grey used to be a scriptwriter on the Now Show. Might have been on dead ringers previously as well. Wasn't on the credits this week, so I don't think this is necessarily some long term policy position

It looks like Gray appeared as a guest on one episode of The Now Show in 2022, and is also credited as a writer for that episode only. Can't find any other mention and I'm sure he would have mentioned it!
https://www.comedy.co.uk/people/jordan_gray/

nauticant · 14/06/2025 20:20

An interesting tweet and replies:

x.com/jonholmes1/status/1933570932078969192

In fact, the programme went after a number of sacred cows, Lineker's self-serving cowardliness, Dr Who, Greta Thunberg, and the The Rest is ... podcast empire. Making fun of Greta Thunberg, Our Lady of The Environment Ukraine Gaza went down badly in some quarters.

nutmeg7 · 14/06/2025 20:42

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/06/2025 18:47

It looks like Gray appeared as a guest on one episode of The Now Show in 2022, and is also credited as a writer for that episode only. Can't find any other mention and I'm sure he would have mentioned it!
https://www.comedy.co.uk/people/jordan_gray/

Can’t find him on Dead Ringers credits anywhere either.
https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/dead_ringers/cast_crew/

Dead Ringers cast and crew credits - British Comedy Guide

A credits list of the actors, writers, producers, directors and other cast and crew involved in Radio 4's Dead Ringers.

https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/dead_ringers/cast_crew

Szygy · 15/06/2025 09:11

Lalgarh · 14/06/2025 10:11

Jordan Grey used to be a scriptwriter on the Now Show. Might have been on dead ringers previously as well. Wasn't on the credits this week, so I don't think this is necessarily some long term policy position

I’m sure we'll all be positively falling over ourselves to see the first episode of Jordan Grey's new ITV 'comedy' series, 'Transaction', in which the shtick appears to be that he’s a TW employed at a supermarket and, realising his LGBTQT++++ status makes him unsackable, creates mayhem.

Hilarious, we all agree. Yes? No?? Or just a bit too close to reality?

(I'm sure I have a dim memory of some version of this being advertised as being on before, but I’ve managed to suppress it. It’s billed as a new series, though, so I’m confused. Whatever, I find I'll be washing my hair that day, and all the days it’s on)

ILikeDungs · 15/06/2025 13:06

"I find I'll be washing my hair that day, and all the days it’s on"

I'll be washing my hair that day too, and the next day it is on I'll be drying it.

Oh well, never mind.

TheOtherRaven · 15/06/2025 16:34

Szygy · 15/06/2025 09:11

I’m sure we'll all be positively falling over ourselves to see the first episode of Jordan Grey's new ITV 'comedy' series, 'Transaction', in which the shtick appears to be that he’s a TW employed at a supermarket and, realising his LGBTQT++++ status makes him unsackable, creates mayhem.

Hilarious, we all agree. Yes? No?? Or just a bit too close to reality?

(I'm sure I have a dim memory of some version of this being advertised as being on before, but I’ve managed to suppress it. It’s billed as a new series, though, so I’m confused. Whatever, I find I'll be washing my hair that day, and all the days it’s on)

And hilarious consequences ensue.....

Argh. Hell will be being stuck in a room choosing between Call The Midwife (being beaten slowly to death by a sack of sugar wrapped in a copy of the Guardian) and this kind of sitcom. Or yet another depressed and dysfunctional detective in a village where everybody is apparently psychopathic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/06/2025 09:25

He did a pilot for it years ago so it’s been talked about before ITV picked it up.

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