Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lineker 'Trans people are some of the most persecuted people on the planet'

174 replies

IDareSay · 15/05/2025 12:25

Just stick to bloody football Gary.

Oliver Brown in The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/05/15/gary-lineker-interview-gaza-transgender-america-bbc-motd/

“One other area where Lineker has been noticeably silent is a subject where centrist-dad equivocations are difficult: men masquerading in sport as women. This has been front-page news in his own realm, with the Football Association forced this month to ban males from all levels of the female game, honouring the Supreme Court’s ruling that the definition of a woman was based on biological sex. And yet Lineker has consistently swerved it. When his podcast, The Rest Is Football, tried a public question-and-answer experiment last November, Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies and hundreds of other women asked him what he thought of the FA banning a teenager – revealed by The Telegraph last weekend as Cerys Vaughan – for asking a transgender opponent: “Are you a man?” Even under pressure from a nine-time Wimbledon singles champion and a celebrated Olympic swimmer, he neglected to engage. Why?
“Ugh,” he sighs, slumping so far forward in his chair he nearly hits the table. “You can’t cover that subject properly in a post. It’s too nuanced. I don’t actually think, in terms of sport, that it will ever be a real issue. Sport, as it’s already doing, will sort it out and work out rules. Like they did in boxing, when they realised they couldn’t have heavyweights against little fellas.”
Is it not blindingly obvious, however, that sport will not simply “sort it out”? It has taken many determined female campaigners a punishingly long time to undo the damage of gender ideology, compelling sports to prioritise fairness for women rather than vacuous mantras about inclusion. Amid broad acceptance that the rights of half the population should trump the view of a small, vocal minority of men that they are entitled to colonise women’s sport, Lineker makes it clear where his sympathies lie. “They’re some of the most persecuted on the planet, trans people. You’ve got to be very careful not to have bigoted views on that. I genuinely feel really badly for trans people. Imagine going through what they have to go through in life. Is there even any issue? It’s the same swimmer, the same weightlifter, the same boxer. They’re the only people I ever see.”

Lineker’s perspective here is myopic. The three examples he raises – American swimmer Lia Thomas, New Zealand weightlifter Laurel Hubbard, and Algerian boxer Imane Khelif, not transgender but permitted to win gold as a woman at the Paris Olympics despite sex tests indicating the presence of male chromosomes – are indeed well-publicised. But they are far from the only ones he could cite, with a recent report by Reem Alsalem, the United Nations special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, documenting how governing bodies’ failures to act had led to more than 600 female athletes around the world losing 890 medals in 29 different sports.
In his eyes, only cases at elite level matter. “We’ve got the Women’s Euros in the summer. Let’s see if there’s one issue – I don’t think there is. Are you telling me that there are many people who pretend to be women just so they’re going to be good at sport?” The desire of some males to receive affirmation as female can be a powerful motivating force, I argue. “It’s so complex,” Lineker says. “I see both sides to a degree.””

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
CorruptedCauldron · 15/05/2025 20:10

Yes. It's a very odd phrase, isn't it?
As if his views are something he has to carefully watch and curate.
Rather than consider, test, question.
Almost sounds like the religious belief of a secret non-believer, Gary.

Yes @ArabellaScott - if it was considered bigoted to believe in gravity, would you stop believing in it, Gary? Course not.

You can’t ‘be careful not to be bigoted’. You either are or you’re not. These people need to learn to think for themselves.

Gary is being ‘careful’ because he doesn’t want to be cancelled. It sounds like he knows he would only shoot himself in the foot if he started fumbling towards an opinion on gender ideology.

latetothefisting · 15/05/2025 21:11

Lostinidea · 15/05/2025 12:44

Same, but have never understood what he believes he has to be so smug about. All he's known for is being competent at kicking a ball and flogging some crisps.

to be fair he's also known for shitting himself in front of millions and wiping his arse on the pitch.
Exactly the sort of upstanding individual whom you'd expect to have a view on the necessity of dignity in toilets and other private places

EsmeQuibbles · 15/05/2025 21:19

A side effect of eating too many Walkers crisps.
Potato brain.
Don't be like Gary.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 09:19

CorruptedCauldron · 15/05/2025 20:10

Yes. It's a very odd phrase, isn't it?
As if his views are something he has to carefully watch and curate.
Rather than consider, test, question.
Almost sounds like the religious belief of a secret non-believer, Gary.

Yes @ArabellaScott - if it was considered bigoted to believe in gravity, would you stop believing in it, Gary? Course not.

You can’t ‘be careful not to be bigoted’. You either are or you’re not. These people need to learn to think for themselves.

Gary is being ‘careful’ because he doesn’t want to be cancelled. It sounds like he knows he would only shoot himself in the foot if he started fumbling towards an opinion on gender ideology.

Yes. Thought terminating cliches, I suppose. 'Here Be Dragons' (or vipers) - so, he has put up a mental forcefield that thoughts just bounce off of.

Violetparis · 16/05/2025 10:04

When I first joined Mumsnet years ago his name was often mentioned in threads about creepy, awful celebrities. Pestering young women in nightclubs when he was married to his first wife. It stuck with me as it was far from his public image.

LesMisSaigon · 18/05/2025 22:18

I can't stand Gary lineker, but if he said that I love him!

MarieDeGournay · 18/05/2025 22:37

BREAKING NEWS SUNDAY PM
GARY LINEKER HAS BEEN MARGINALISED!

He's leaving the BBC, like, now-ish😃

Boiledbeetle · 18/05/2025 22:56

MarieDeGournay · 18/05/2025 22:37

BREAKING NEWS SUNDAY PM
GARY LINEKER HAS BEEN MARGINALISED!

He's leaving the BBC, like, now-ish😃

😁

Gary Lineker 'QUITS the BBC after anti-Semitic rat post row - and will not front World Cup coverage' mol.im/a/14725297 via https://dailym.ai/android

SidewaysOtter · 18/05/2025 23:01

Au revoir to the misogynistic crisp botherer.

DialSquare · 18/05/2025 23:02

🎵Cheerio, Cheerio, Cheerio🎵

EasternStandard · 19/05/2025 06:57

Finally.

ArabellaScott · 19/05/2025 06:59

Why the fuck wasn't he sacked?

EasternStandard · 19/05/2025 07:20

ArabellaScott · 19/05/2025 06:59

Why the fuck wasn't he sacked?

Fair question

TheOtherRaven · 19/05/2025 07:31

It's amazing how being as misogynist as fuck and openly prejudiced against women is absolutely fine, bring on the total inappropriacy and bigotry there, but not against any currently liked groups.

Silly man couldn't keep his prejudices in the right lane.

nauticant · 19/05/2025 07:43

In the right-thinking world, Lineker shouldn't have been sacked because all he was doing was exercising his free speech. However, as Roger Mosey, former Head of Sport at the BBC, just said on the Today programme, how much support would Lineker have received from right-thinkers had he supported Brexit or supported Israel? This is nothing to do with Lineker's right to free speech.

It is fitting that Lineker finally got the boot over posting anti-Semitic material and that will be part of his legacy.

EweSurname · 19/05/2025 07:46

Did he get the boot though?

outofdate · 19/05/2025 07:53

Sacked for sure. No way would he choose to give up the World Cup gig. Good riddance!

Freysimo · 19/05/2025 07:58

G L always gives me the impression that due to his lack of further education, he feels inferior to his lefty intellectual friends and spouts whatever nonsense they do.

GorillaJoe · 19/05/2025 08:05

Gary thinks there are only three TIMs in women’s sport as Gary thinks women are not important enough for him to bother looking into this issue.

Just like Jewish people are not important enough to Gary for him to think what a rat emoticon on a post about Israel may mean.

Gary doesn’t look to hard into things in case what he finds out means he has to be genuinely brave, rather than just identify as brave.

nauticant · 19/05/2025 08:50

This appears to be the origin of the association between Jews and rats that Lineker referenced:

Lineker 'Trans people are some of the most persecuted people on the planet'
Shortshriftandlethal · 19/05/2025 08:54

Hadley Freeman had it right in Saturday's Times when she suggested that

"...Centrist dads are all about supporting the underdog, because that is what good guys do. But when times are complicated, and the oppressor/oppression nexus isn’t quite as simple as some would like, the centrist dad stumbles......A key plank of the centrist dad ideology is to simplify complicated issues so that the good side and the bad side are self-evident — but also to complicate simple issues so as to avoid awkward truths. “People say it’s a complex issue, but I don’t think it is........ such naivety expressed with such confidence.

But what is complicated, according to Lineker, is the question of males (aka trans women) in women’s sport. When asked why he — a former sportsman, I believe — has stayed uncharacteristically silent on that matter, he replied: “You can’t cover a subject like that in a post. It’s too nuanced.” Israel is simple; men in women’s sport is complicated: it could be the centrist dad mantra"

www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/lifes-too-complicated-for-the-centrist-dads-p2wrlpd63

nauticant · 19/05/2025 08:58

nauticant · 19/05/2025 08:50

This appears to be the origin of the association between Jews and rats that Lineker referenced:

Just to be clear, I'm saying that Lineker was referencing the association between Jews and rats rather than him referencing the origin material.

GorillaJoe · 19/05/2025 09:06

“You can’t cover a subject like that in a post. It’s too nuanced.” Israel is simple; men in women’s sport is complicated: it could be the centrist dad mantra"

Oh My God, this is so accurate!

Well said, Hadley Freeman!

GorillaJoe · 19/05/2025 09:13

In the right-thinking world, Lineker shouldn't have been sacked because all he was doing was exercising his free speech

I am not clear what you mean by ' Right thinkers' but regardless, there is a well established principle that the right to free speech ends when it incites racial hatred. Dehumanising Jews ( or any group of people) by comparing them to rats very clearly falls into this camp. I am a huge free speech advocate and a member of the Free Speech Union but I absolutely agree the line is drawn at such clear incitement of racial hatred as calling groups of people ' rats.'

And the ' Oh I didn't know Nazis called Jews rats' argument is bollocks too. You don't need to know that to realise that calling a ethnic group of people 'rats' is inciting racial hatred against them.