“Why aren’t you getting changed”. Man asks female Darlington nurse this 3 times in female changeroom

[CrocsNotDocs]

More details re the Darlington nurses. I don’t know what to say. This is outrageous. Just fucking outrageous.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14698557/I-begged-bosses-not-let-trans-nurse-invaded-changing-room-intimate-operation-refused-didnt-want-hurt-feelings.html

Not wanting to derail but.... Remember that the exact same thing is happening to teenage girls in some schools in the UK who are compelled to undress in front of males for swimming / sports lessons.
Worth taking a look at this thread where a father's taking on a school because it's happening to his daughter. (I hope the OP doesn't mind me linking). There's an excellent letter of complaint that he's said he's happy for other parents to use if their child's school has a safeguarding breaching "trans policy":

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330837-secondary-school-mixed-sex-changing-rooms-complaint-update-from-school-again?page=1

The most important thing I've learnt from mumsnetters: NEVER create a sacred caste

It always strikes me that if someone who feels that they are a women, then acts like a complete bloke and as far from a female as possible.

I am so so livid on behalf of Karen. It shows in stark light and focus how captured organisations are willing to throw women under a bus to maintain their support of the ideology.

I was retraining to become a theatre AHP a
few years back but left the course half way through, mainly because I’d suffered a major medical event just prior to starting the course and was placed in the same hospital (and got zero support from the uni when I said I was struggling, was actually diagnosed with PTSD) but also partially because of my discomfort of sharing a changing room with a transwoman and my knowledge that there was no way in this world I would be able to complain without it impacting me negatively. So I just left.

More evidence that the NHS is not fit for purpose. What management structure thinks that this is ok? The world has gone fucking mad!

Yes, sorry, just read that now.

Dear God! You just know that at any one point in time there will be children being put through the most undescribable abuse. I still think of Victoria Climbie and Sara Sharif....and all of those children being brought up in the most degraded and ugly conditions.

Exactly this.

Trans women behave less like women than regular men do.

This needs stressing.

In the situation with the operation, Rose's sex was actually completely irrelevant. It was a factor that shouldn't have been considered. The primary problem was the conflict of interest and a legal complainant being put into a vulnerable position where the person they were complaining about had absolute control over their body. Rose could have been a female bullying Karen and the situation wouldn't have been acceptable because of the legal action.

Instead, this was ignored and the trust doubled down to try and punish the complainant for her gender critical views. It was an act of institutional coercion.

How could Karen consent to the operation under those conditions? Even if she had it would have been under duress and the fear that she would fail to get the medical treatment she needed. That's not ok.

I think the belief that "a woman is a person who acts a certain way" is partly why we are in this mess. I know what you mean, but female people can act in any way imaginable and still be women. We're socialised to act a certain way but it's a huge generalisation to say "women are like this, men are like that".

How did a pervert going into women's changing spaces get a job with NHS and gets to keep a job with NHS?
Think the HR bosses and other management need to go.

Judging by the number of people who are complicit, it would appear to be a requirement.

The most infuriating thing about all these cases is the way institutions, politicians and activists are trying to impose a kind of intelligence-insulting, self-imperilling naivety on everybody else. We're meant to set aside millennia of accumulated wisdom and decades of personal experience to organise life on the basis that no man would ever do anything just for a sexual thrill. We're meant to think of the endless self-limiting precautions women are forced to take to avoid becoming the victims of predatory men not as a burden on women but as a prejudice against men.

Is it any wonder institutions like the NHS are constantly embroiled in scandal after scandal if they take the approach that the scepticism wrought by bitter experience is just a form of bigotry?

But sexually predatory behaviour is almost exclusively male behaviour. There's no way round that.

Tanya de Grunwald talks about the CIPD and their original misleading guide in a podcast episode with KJK. CIPD issued a corrected version but it is paywalled so lots of organisations are still using the what is, effectively, the King James Bible adulterer’s version of the CIPD guidance.

Timestamped to relevant discussion:

One thing this debate has taught me is how oblivious most people are of what men are capable of and how sex and domination drives them to do unspeakable things until a bigger, stronger force stops them. This is proof that abused women and girls aren’t being listened to and my heart breaks for them.

This made me cry. No words. Solidarity to you ladies.
Pendulum appears to be swinging back from this insanity so I feel hopeful.

I was just thinking, if Karen had reported this "indecent exposure" to the police, and since they are captured also, nothing would have happened as Karen would be told he's a she and that's impossible, be kind etc.

Terrifying how the organs of State are working against women. Just terrifying that there is such little (none?) recourse available under criminal or any other law without having to take matters to tribunal.

Maybe I'm wrong about redress, but it's not what it looks like to me anyway.

To an extent.

Whether its nature or nurture crime figures demonstrate than men and women do behave in different ways.

It’s completely sickening. The poor woman. What courage she has to speak out like this.

A pervert’s charter is absolutely right.

he is already outed, but exercising control is part of the MO of his abuse

Brilliantly written.

And especially with this cohort. When did everybody forget about cross-dressing as a sexual fetish?

That is fucking horrific. What an incredible woman.

I am not sure I agree with people saying not to focus on the individual that us Rose. I think it is really important to show just how captured the NHS is, and that requires showing the court how male Rose is.

Beth Upton clearly believes he is a woman, and has at least made some attempts to pass. He is the type I think 'be kind' was intended for. But now we have a whole cast of chancers clinging onto the likes of Beth to get access to women's spaces and to get their rocks off. And the NHS is so captured it has blinded itself to this. I think getting this out into the light would be very helpful. I have wondered why they didn't name him in the case.

OMG, that story is harrowing, even just to read.

Brava, brava, and brava for Ms Danson's utter sheer courage for going public with this.

And shame on ALL the people who didn't believe a woman about sexual harassment, and allowed a fetishistic man, who was trying to get his wife pregnant, to cause such upset in a woman just trying to do her job.

When these men say "We just want to pee" what about ALL THE WOMEN who just want to live their lives, free of nightmares, unbelievable fear and stress?

Males and Females are controlled by entirely different sets of hormones. And it matters. And men have bodies that they can weaponise. We don’t. It is that simple.

This is why of course trans activists never want to talk about real things. They always want to discuss concepts like kindness and inclusion. But when you ask ‘so what about women who perceive men with a gender identity as men and don’t want to be naked in front of them?’ they start wanging on about how we should all have individual changing rooms and communal changing rooms are out of date.

BUT WE HAVE COMMUNAL CHANGING ROOMS NOW AND LOTS OF WOMEN HAVE TO USE THEM TO DO THEIR JOB. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WOMEN?