“Why aren’t you getting changed”. Man asks female Darlington nurse this 3 times in female changeroom

[CrocsNotDocs]

More details re the Darlington nurses. I don’t know what to say. This is outrageous. Just fucking outrageous.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14698557/I-begged-bosses-not-let-trans-nurse-invaded-changing-room-intimate-operation-refused-didnt-want-hurt-feelings.html

It could be that they’re inhumane and horrible people. It could also be the case that they were terrified for their jobs - NHS policy explicitly requires that they behave the way that they did, or risk being reeducated or forced out. I’m not in any way excusing their behaviour, but every NHS employee is up against the most heinously offensive policies; not everyone will have the courage to defy them.

Why did they resist rejigging the rota so "Rose" wasn't assigned to Karen's surgery?

@BundleBoogie have a listen to this podcast to get a flavour of the working conditions in the NHS regarding this. Grim.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inciteful-sisters/id1802508941?i=1000704330320

Who knows - but again, there would have been strong pressure not to “sideline” “Rose” - the same policy pressure that meant that Dr U could say that someone waiting outside the changing room until he was finished before then going in themselves was “transphobic.” You would not believe how far these policies go to make it impossible for people to not centre trans people and trample the rights and needs of everyone else.

I don’t have the luxury of a final salary pension (which tended to be unavailable since the mid-80’s from anything except the employees that tax-payers fund).

There is no scope to reduce final salary pensions for an employee who acted/advised illegally, is there?

If Darlington offered a settlement that included a full apology, acknowledgement they broke the law, no NDA and a commitment from NHS England that any hospital not complying with the law will be financially penalised.

A commitment from NHS England is not within Darlington's gift. And would be fairly meaningless given that NHS England is in the process of being abolished.

Sorry I forgot about NHS England being abolished. I should have said DHSC.

You are right Darlington can’t make a commitment on behalf of DHSC but DHSC/NHS England are highly likely to be involved behind the scenes and could make the commitment to get a settlement.

I'm not sure about that @madcats because if someone is dismissed, there's a question on the pension leaver form asking if any money is to be withheld, certainly for LGPS.
I can also vaguely remember something about two policemen having their pensions reduced due to perverting the course of justice.
But it's years since I properly worked on pensions and I've never really done NHS ones

Yes I was thinking the same. Why should women need to disclose their GC belief to have a female only space to which they are entitled to and need for reasons of privacy and dignity?

But they wouldn't have needed to go near the trans issue to remove Rose from that surgery surely - the fact that the two members of staff were involved in a current legal dispute should have been enough to flag it as completely inappropriate.

Oh I don’t disagree, but as I say, the pressure not to be seen to be transphobic - where official policies make virtually anything transphobic - is huge. They could have said “it’s because of the legal dispute,” but if there was even a small chance that someone would have seen even that as detrimental to “Rose,” I can imagine there could have been second thoughts.

I don’t know - you would hope people would behave respectfully, or at least intelligently, but as we keep seeing, they really don’t. But we can’t possibly know why.

You're very likely right, but it seems insane to think that the worry of being perceived as even slightly transphobic would override the concern of being potentially liable if something went wrong in an operation where one of the staff participating was in a legal dispute with the patient!

But as you say, irrational behaviour by management is par for the course in these cases.

Women's Hour, who have changed their strapline to "Women's voices and women's lives - topical conversations to inform, challenge and inspire" since their Supreme Court fortnight have just had the male editor of Nursing Times on to talk about the nurses 3.6% pay award. Given the news about the Darlington nurses at the weekend you would have thought he would have been asked about that?

The determination of both this individual and the NHS to force him onto this nurse against her consent would bear further questioning, IMO.

Thank you - these ladies sound very interesting. I’ve downloaded some of their episodes for the school run.

I hear what you’re saying and do agree re lower level staff but if that is what happened I find it very sad and still quite horrifying that no one with some power had the will to stand up to this.

Otherwise that gives him ultimate power over the actions of the whole organisation and the ability to sexually harass women with impunity - which I guess he did.

I am soo disappointed with WH. I had only just started listening when it turned out they were in the process of hounding Jenny Murray out and starting to platform men to speak as if they were women.

A bigger let down to women I think we’d struggle to find (apart from the WI, many nursing unions, the Fawcett Society etc etc)

I am soo disappointed with WH.

You shouldn't be...they've made it clear for a long time now just how far downwards one's expectations should have been revised.

I wonder if these knobheads will ever stop to realise that prioritising men over women, acting like women don't exist and feeding women utter moralistic bullshit over it is just about as unprogressive as it's possible to get.

It will just open up a world of trouble for them legally.

The 'women's changing room' is not inclusive for the population that under law women is supposed to serve in terms of equality.

It is for women and men with particular beliefs.

It excludes other women and it excludes other men.

That would be so easy to take to court that the NHS might as well just get their chequebook out now.

A man has told me he can't see a problem with Rose being in the changing room. Women wear bikinis on holiday and happily wander around in clothing that is far more skimpy than underwear in front of men, so therefore women can't complain about having to share a changing room with transwomen.

I'm lost for words.

Women wear bikinis on holiday and happily wander around in clothing that is far more skimpy than underwear in front of men, so therefore women can't complain about having to share a changing room with transwomen.

Perhaps you should ask him if he'd go to work in a pair of speedos?

That's exactly what I would have thought of saying when I was half way home. I would have been stunned speechless at the idiocy in the moment

Many women are not comfortable in bikinis and choose to stay covered up. Your man also seems oblivious to religious dress requirements.

Well he's just proved how utterly stupid and hard of thinking he is.

That's a worthwhile piece of knowledge.

"My (NHS) employer has done the same for me. They wrapped it in ‘aren’t we being kind and supportive’ as they told me I had to use the unisex toilet in a different block from my office and gave me a key to that block - my block only has gendered facilities."

I saw this comment on trans reddit - so it seems like things are changing even within the NHS.