“Why aren’t you getting changed”. Man asks female Darlington nurse this 3 times in female changeroom

[CrocsNotDocs]

More details re the Darlington nurses. I don’t know what to say. This is outrageous. Just fucking outrageous.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14698557/I-begged-bosses-not-let-trans-nurse-invaded-changing-room-intimate-operation-refused-didnt-want-hurt-feelings.html

Well done the Darlington nurses for standing up against men who.think they are women. Helping people see the harm done to real women when big institutions pander to this nonsense. Give Rose his own cupboard to change in so he cannot make offensive remarks to women or parade in his pants. Take away his power over women.

It is good news about the Darlington nurses, though i don't really understand about giving them their own room - does this mean that the nurses involved in the action will have their own room, separate from the other female staff? Why not just say that "Rose" has to go in a different changing room and let the nurses use the female changing room? It doesn't make a massive amount of sense.

And does this mean the tribunal will still go ahead or not?

Well yes. I rather want the tribunal to go ahead (whilst wishing the Darlington Nurses did not have to undergo the inevitable stress). But a behind the scenes agreement to comply with the law at Darlington doesn’t help other women in the NHS

Also the issue that in Whitehall itself the judgment is being ignored and men told to do whatever makes them happy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14790903/Whitehall-staff-flouting-Supreme-Court-ruling-biological-sex-toilets.html

Check the article. I bolded the key quote above. They appreciate the room, but they are not stopping:

One of them, Bethany Hutchison, said they ‘hugely appreciate’ the action ‘to restore our safety and dignity in the workplace in line with the law’.
And she said the nurses would not ‘stop until this action is extended urgently to female workers across the NHS without any unnecessary delay’.

They are not stopping till they get TOTAL VICTORY. Which is what they need to do.

This is an inspiration to everyone in this fight. We keep going.

It's great that they are carrying on fighting. And of course this should apply throughout the NHS - it's the law. I don't see that the NHS has any excuse for not making all changing-rooms single-sex immediately.

But given that Darlington NHS now knows, thanks to the Supreme Court judgement, that it is definitely breaking the law, and given that it's been told by both the health secretary and the RCN that they must act to stop females having to share with males, then surely Darlington NHS can't carry on defending itself in tribunal? What the hell is their argument going to be? "We are breaking the law but we don't care"? Surely they will attempt a settlement with the nurses?

'Bitch Terf Nasty Person space for disobedient women because He Made Us'
This made me laugh, The OtherRaven, very clever summing up of the anti-women position.
I can almost see it on one of those cheap stick-on door signs...😂

As with Whitehall: there seriously seems to be an approach to just not follow the law because they don't like having to respect women's rights.

I still expect this case to be settled before the tribunal.

I don’t. Im sure the hospital would be keen to settle but it’s not their choice. I think like Fife, the nurses are so furious and have been so public they want their date in court

Yeah. I don't think the nurses will accept a settlement and one cannot be forced on them. Settlements also invariably come with shut up no discussion clauses, and there's no way the nurses are going to accept that.
There will be no settlement, the nurses will be shouting from the rooftops about their win. People in authority need to be sacked loss of pension etc.... HR needs to be sent on female rights education courses. Only once there's real consequences will this stupidity by useful idiots stop.

If I were one of the Darlington nurses, I would want everybody involved in consigning them to the storeroom (even when it was pointed out that they had been breaking the law) named and shamed. It was spiteful bullying.

I agree an NDA is often used but not always.

Eleanor Frances settled for £116k and no NDA https://www.doyleclayton.co.uk/resources/news/significant-settlement-for-civil-servant-eleanor-frances/

“The settlement was significant in two respects: firstly that the Civil Service settled for the full value of the claim, at a very early stage of proceedings; and secondly that there were no confidentiality restrictions placed upon the settlement.”

In my view, the outcome of Sandie’s ET will have an impact on this case. If, as I hope, the claims against Fife are upheld, Darlington know they would potentially be funding an EAT as well as an ET. Additionally, the outcome for Dr Upton will also be relevant as they are named as a respondent.

Darlington have a duty of care to “Rose”, as well as the nurses. We all know an ET is stressful
for everyone, “Rose” as a witness may not want to testify after seeing what Dr U has gone through, particularly as their alleged behaviour is worse. They can require “Rose” to testify but at what cost?

I know everyone wants their day in court and to see “Rose” held accountable but - If Darlington offered a settlement that included a full apology, acknowledgement they broke the law, no NDA and a commitment from NHS England that any hospital not complying with the law will be financially penalised. Together with a dedicated whistleblowing hotline?

It maybe hard for the nurses to refuse.

I know everyone wants their day in court and to see “Rose” held accountable but - If Darlington offered a settlement that included a full apology, acknowledgement they broke the law, no NDA and a commitment from NHS England that any hospital not complying with the law will be financially penalised. Together with a dedicated whistleblowing hotline?

How likely is that, though? Somehow I can't see Darlington agreeing to a package like that.

And don't forget what utter shits they were when one needed surgery and didn't want 'Rose' there.

The choice may be taken out of their hands. "This is what's going to happen. If you don't like it you are free to resign. Your pension will be affected. This is not a negotiation, I am giving you a direct order."

Remember NHS is tax payer funded, a lot of pressure can be brought to bear when £££ are involved.

If they are offered an OOC settlement, refuse, win at tribunal but are awarded less than the offer, who pays the costs? I think it might be the claimant and that could be ruinous even if they win.

We need clear public rulings on these cases. JKR's fund might be good to get these so that costs are covered even if people refused a settlement to get them.

I think you make a very sensible point. The NHS could absolutely reflect on the altered landscape and seek to protect Rose by making a full apology and leading the way nationally for the NHS on balancing the needs of women and trans people.

Unfortunately the people who wrote these policies and the ones who enacted them have zero clue about the law. They have no idea they were acting unlawfully. It might be starting to dawn on them but I am not confident that they have the knowledge and understanding to take your stance. So they will probably blunder on and put Rose on the stand - flying in the face of safeguarding and good care. If Rose suffers it is because of the NHS and the managers - the worry is that the nurses will be blamed

ETA I think Rose is much more vulnerable than Upton. Their father is accused of some terrible stuff and Rose may be one of his victims. It's possible for someone to be vulnerable and also a risk to others so I don't condone their use of the changing room, but I don't think they should be compelled to take the stand. A witness statement could presumably be enough?

@KnottyAuty I can also see it going exactly as you describe, time will tell.

As Akua Reindorf has pointed out, a lot of people are having to adjust to not having the rights they thought they did because Stonewall etc. misrepresented the law and lied about what rights transpeople did and did not have.

Edited to Add, yes Rose could just do a witness statement.

The drawback with just submitting a witness statement is that it will carry little weight without cross-examination.

Agree. The staff involved are bullies. They should be dealt with accordingly.

This is clearly true.

Unfortunately the people who wrote these policies and the ones who enacted them have zero clue about the law. They have no idea they were acting unlawfully.

This could be the case with the changing room, though of course I think they're wrong. But the way they dealt with Karen requesting that Rose not be present at her surgery was unnecessary and plain cruel.

Yes, it’s quite mind blowing that people with such inhumane attitudes would work in a caring profession.

Vindictive, spiteful and explicitly supporting a predatory man over a female colleague.