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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:18

BreatheAndFocus · 04/05/2025 11:12

The ECHR is separate from the EU.

Right. I forgot we're still bound by the ECHR.

queenofthesuburbs · 04/05/2025 11:18

Re The Second Sex

I am amazed that the trans lobby and @Lostcat are using this book to argue that a baby is not born a woman but becomes one.

What de Beauvoir was arguing was that men decided what that female baby should grow into ie subservient and obedient to men/domestic slave/object of sexual gratification/procreator of their sperm/caregiver.

In other words a baby was not born a “woman” in terms of what the patriarchy defined as a woman. A female baby has so many other qualities and attributes than what men assigned for her.

This was the basis of “Women’s Lib” back in the 1960s/70s.

She was arguing against men’s right to define a woman!!

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:18

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:15

I truly am not aware of any such disease, and I think my position is logical.

Explain the logic.

Because for pages now you have repeated phrases and not used any logic.

RedToothBrush · 04/05/2025 11:18

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:03

ECHR? I'm confused - we're not in the EU anymore.

I'm also confused as to how TW having GRCs would disadvantage biological women.

Get with the programme.

We ARE still subject to the ECHR.
We DIDN'T leave it. It's not the EU.
TRAs have been banging on about taking the SC ruling to the ECHR all week. I'm not sure how you missed this. So they want to still be subject to it.
If we decided to leave it would potentially have an impact on other things - such as trade deals.

This is why I say, idealism on this, is totally at odds with the reality on this.

You cant do what you want without effectively completely burning down the house of human rights law in the UK. It is impossible.

And this isn't going to help transpeople is it? They'd end up in a worse position than where the SC and JKR say we are - that sex is sex and it's binary and we all know what sex we are by definition. (Including if you are trans because being trans is a state relational and identifiable only by sex).

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 11:19

Cloudtime · 04/05/2025 10:51

I would be very interested to know if you actually know any trans people ? If you’ve actually even had any conversation whatsoever with any one trans person?
If your opinion that it’s a mental health issue is actually based on?

Are you aware of the main reasons why many trans people don’t have bottom surgery ? The physical risks and financial implications that make it impossible for many?
Have you ever actually been or felt personally threatened by an actual trans person ?
How do you feel about trans men being forced to now use women’s bathrooms?
How do you feel about about masc presenting women being challenged about their use of women’s bathrooms ?
You are very vocal about this topic and I would like to assume that you have at least some knowledge or experience rather than just parroting some opinions you’ve read .

‘You are very vocal about this topic and I would like to assume that you have at least some knowledge or experience rather than just parroting some opinions you’ve read’

Scold, scold, scold, how dare women have opinions eh? I grew up around two transvestites, as they were called then, and I worked with one. Not one of them expected anyone to believe they were women, didn’t use women’s facilities and as such posed no problem. However, I find I am able to have opinions on all sorts of subjects of which I have no experience, don’t you?

Any sort of surgery of this nature is barbaric and completely unnecessary, and on the whole leaves people at a hideous disadvantage with lifelong medical issues and reduced or non existent sexual function.

TM can obviously use women’s facilities because they’re women, including the six foot, bearded, body building TM that suddenly seem to have appeared everywhere, and everyone has as friends.

I take my lead from biological facts, and it is an undisputed fact that people can’t change sex, asking women to acquiesce to this misogynistic, regressive, homophobic ideology is harmful and dangerous.

Here’s a bit of reading for you, he’s the sort of expert I listen to, because he uses facts not hyperbole.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/02/tavistock-trust-whistleblower-david-bell-transgender-children-gids

quantumbutterfly · 04/05/2025 11:19

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:45

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman" - says SdB.

You think she’d be into the JKR simplisms “woman= adult, human, female”.

I highly doubt it.

You are confusing philosophy with biological reality. hth

Espressosummer · 04/05/2025 11:20

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 03:41

I believe trans people when they say that they feel they've been born in the wrong body. Maybe that's not a real thing, but I believe that they feel so strongly that they want to be the opposite sex that that's how it feels to them. And I don't believe it has to be a mental-health issue. I believe that some people do genuinely want to be the opposite sex that badly, because they just do. Born that way. And the truth is that we don't know why some people feel that way. But I believe them.

Do you believe the same thing about race? When white people say they were born in the wrong body and really they are black/Asian. Do you think that is not a mental health problem? Do you think it's okay for these people to put on black face because it reflects better how they feel about themselves? What if they want to go for scholarships for BAME people? You're happy for men to take from women based on how they feel.

spannasaurus · 04/05/2025 11:20

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:15

I truly am not aware of any such disease, and I think my position is logical.

Your position is illogical because there is no way to distinguish in law between men who have a penis and don't take hormones and have GRC and those men that you would describe as fully transitioned who also have a GRC

Jamclag · 04/05/2025 11:20

This is a perfect analysis of the current situation as usual from JK. I'm not prone to hero worship but bloody hell this woman deserves all the adoration she gets.

A true and selfless champion of women and girl's rights to her bones.

user1471471849 · 04/05/2025 11:22

facts6754 · 03/05/2025 22:22

Oh for gods sake… do you really think people would MEDICALLY TRANSITION and go through YEARS of medical and social transitioning to assault women???? it doesnt stop cis men from doing it so i want whatever you guys are smoking.

Anyone can claim to be trans, you don't have to medically transition or go through any kind of social transitioning to claim to be trans. Of course some predatory men are going to take advantage of this situation and it is naive to think otherwise.

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 04/05/2025 11:22

Not RTFT past the OP but I love JKR’s tweet ❤️

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:23

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:15

I truly am not aware of any such disease, and I think my position is logical.

Some male cancers are treated with estrogen, or they were in the past.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 11:23

Allotmentblackfly · 04/05/2025 10:57

Hello
I work in child and adolescent mental health. We have a huge increase in under 18's saying they have swapped gender. I am very concerned that this is a fashion for many who are using it to try to make sense of their problems which are often neurodivergence/ abuse / mental health. It makes me sad. Also I'm always getting muddled about what gender people are and am in constant anxiety about being in trouble for misgendering. Biology being what it is I am sure that there are a small number of people who truly are wired so that they are a different gender cognitively than biologically, and they should be treated with respect and given appropriate medical advice - it must be a terrible situation to be in.

You are confusing sex with gender here, there are only two sexes, male and female. Gender is a social construct that has absolutely no meaning in reality.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:23

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/05/2025 11:15

A belief system that leads you to believe in a false (as opposed to an unproven/unprovable) reality IS a delusion.

Unless you think women actually are lesser than men, or think the jury is still out on that one, yes it is a delusion.

I think delusions are usually taken to be something that's the result of an illness. As opposed to a false belief, like that women are inferior to men.

thirdfiddle · 04/05/2025 11:24

So stuckupprincess is personally okay with sharing with trans people provided they've had surgery.

Having a GRC is unrelated to having had surgery. You have to report what surgery you've had if you've had it, but you don't have to have had it. So stuckupprincess sounds like you'd actually agree with the supreme court's conclusion that women's single sex spaces shouldn't include all biological men who are legally women via GRCs.

Including only men with surgery is clearly not an option that's on the table. It's morally highly dubious - bribing people with access to things they want to have their bits chopped off. And it's impractical because you can't tell they've still got bits. So it's just performative being-nice saying you're okay with that because discriminating on surgical status was not an option that was ever on the table. And that's the only difference between your position and JKR's that I can see.

EweSurname · 04/05/2025 11:24

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:52

Yes, exactly. I'm sure some people will object to this too, but it's the fairest solution to the greatest amount of people.

I’d wager that most women on this board would also agree. Because it’s about protecting women’s rights.

Have you ever proposed this set up to trans people before? I think you’d be surprised by the reaction to this perfectly reasonable potential solution if you posited it on Reddit for example. I could be wrong but it would be a good data point if you ever fancied trying it.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:24

spannasaurus · 04/05/2025 11:20

Your position is illogical because there is no way to distinguish in law between men who have a penis and don't take hormones and have GRC and those men that you would describe as fully transitioned who also have a GRC

The deflections and contradictions are bonkers.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:25

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:23

Some male cancers are treated with estrogen, or they were in the past.

Right, but I'm not aware of any disease that involves the removal of penis and testicles and the same hormone treatment as trans women have, which is what you were describing. So that would be testosterone suppressant as well as oestrogen.

borntobequiet · 04/05/2025 11:26

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:41

It's a tradition that's rooted in culture and history. It's not about discrimination. Neither sex gets a better or different experience in the temple.

Discrimination can simply mean to differentiate, so yes, this is discrimination based on sex.

(I have met more than one person who thought that the middle part of the word had something to do with criminality and interpreted it wrongly.)

spannasaurus · 04/05/2025 11:27

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:25

Right, but I'm not aware of any disease that involves the removal of penis and testicles and the same hormone treatment as trans women have, which is what you were describing. So that would be testosterone suppressant as well as oestrogen.

But there is no requirement for transwomen to have that treatment either in connection with GRCs or for protection under the PC of gender reassignment

Keeptoiletssafe · 04/05/2025 11:27

@StuckUpPrincess can you see why single sex toilets (with door gaps) are better than mixed sex toilets (always private)? This means rooms or cubicles - I am not sure which country you are from now. Doc T is the regs here.

If you think about all the evidence, single sex designs with door gaps are better for:
People with invisible disabilities where they may collapse (diabetes, asthma, epilepsy, heart conditions)
Women because of assaults
Children because of assaults
Men because of assaults
People having medical emergencies, heart attacks (one every 5 mins in uk) strokes (one every 5 mins in the uk) or seizures
People when there is a building evacuation
People who need cleaner toilets where they can be properly ventilated from airborne diseases and mopped and bleached
People who are self harming and need assistance quickly.

People who are least likely to need single sex toilets with door gaps: healthy men who work and live in a non hazardous environment

People who are most likely to design toilet cubicles/rooms: healthy men who work and live in a non hazardous environment

Toilet door gaps can make the difference between someone being saved in time. It’s why I spend so much time studying this.
None of the public mixed sex designs in the U.K. have door gaps.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:27

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:25

Right, but I'm not aware of any disease that involves the removal of penis and testicles and the same hormone treatment as trans women have, which is what you were describing. So that would be testosterone suppressant as well as oestrogen.

If they have no testes, why are they suppressing testosterone?

You seem to not be able to defend any of your stated position.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:28

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 11:24

The deflections and contradictions are bonkers.

Yes, so I would only give GRCs to TW who had fully transitioned.

But now that only biological women can go into female spaces, it doesn't matter anyway.

Third spaces are the way to go.

thirdfiddle · 04/05/2025 11:28

I'd also like to challenge those that are asserting that JKR's is an "extreme" position. It really isn't. It's very middle of the road. Most people agree with her. Even people who say they don't like some posters on this thread, when we dug in they actually did agree with the vast majority of things she has said.

Keeptoiletssafe · 04/05/2025 11:29

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 11:28

Yes, so I would only give GRCs to TW who had fully transitioned.

But now that only biological women can go into female spaces, it doesn't matter anyway.

Third spaces are the way to go.

So toilets for healthy men then

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