Ian Dunt’s concern for the sacred caste

[ThisHangrySheep]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/everything-you-need-to-know-about

Caution: blood pressure pills may be required.

You’re being facile. The transwomen I know didn’t wake up one morning and decide to change sex. They were always aware.

I know. And we’re supposed to find it terribly convincing ourselves.

Always aware of what? How could they know what they felt was what being a woman feels like, as boys or men?

Aware of what?

Lady Matilda Simon, 3rd Baron(ess) Wythenshaw was the first I think. But the Baron inherited before transitioning.

That they needed to live as women.

I know how toxic this subject is on Mumsnet so I’m bowing out now.

Will the men in the loo shout at her? Will they mock her, laugh at her, come on to her? Will she be safe? Will she be respected?

Interesting order of concerns. Backs up Atwood's: "Men are afraid that women [or other men] will laugh at them."

Feels like we have some leaky threads at the moment😉

Women don't need single sex toilets. Toilets have cubicle and if men want to attack women, there's nothing to stop them entering anyway.

Its dangerous for TW, who look more like women than most women do, to use mens toilets.

Therefore womens toilets only exist for the benefit of TW?

It’s not that it’s “toxic”, it’s that it’s clear that you can’t back up your opinions.

And what does 'living as a woman' mean?

Questioning and clarifying your vague statements is not 'toxic'.

You do understand though that there cannot be degrees of being a woman? There has no be an agreed definition in law? For women to be protected in all our single sex spaces which includes DV shelters and hospital wards? To have categories of ‘womanhood’ is what would be nonsensical

I can't remember where I saw it, but someone on twitter was complaining about how Dunt used to wang on about "objective reality" a lot during the Brexit stuff, but seems incapable of recognising it where transwomen are concerned.

How terribly transphobic of you. Don't you know that if you SAY you're trans then you're trans. End of. Acceptance without exception - remember?

Welcome to TERFhood.

@urbanbuddha Yesterday 23:26

He's not trans, as he said on several occasions; he's a man with a DSD, which he lied about, repeatedly.

Genital inspections of course, do keep up, we have done this. Obsessively.

I'm sick of it always being a trans rights against women's rights problem.
I'll fight for womens rights until the end of my days. I simply don't care what trans people do or don't do. It isn't my problem.

I think I misread a mildly ironic post, but still, just to underline the point ;

How the flip can a (transwo)man look more like a woman than an actual woman does?

The woman is a woman. What she looks like is what a woman looks like.

He is a man. What he looks like is what a cosplaying man looks like. Usually obvious, often promoting an offensive stereotype. But not like a woman.

If someone cannot safely go to the loo…they are effectively unable to leave their home. They cannot work. They cannot socialise. They cannot participate in political meetings. They cannot attend church. They cannot go to court. They have effectively ceased to exist in public space.

I mean you’ve almost got to admire the chutzpah of it. Not only have they tried to wrestle the words 'woman' and 'female' away from us, they’re now appropriating the urinary leash with almost the same language used by the valiant women who first campaigned for access to toilets in the 19thc. Men (of course) had full access to public loos since they started to exist but that’s not good enough, now they want ours as well. The sheer fucking nerve of it.

And as for Ian Dunt…..I just can't. He was one of the only things that kept me sane through the Brexit insanity and it’s like he’s been possessed now. Him and Adam Buxton - is it some kind of mind virus or what?

Yeah all these centrist/lefty men who are supposedly all about rationality and the 'science'.

They abandoned that very quickly when it suited them, didn't they? 🙄

There is no universal assumption that men have a right to use women’s facilities now (or vice versa), and most don’t have the resources that enable extensive face feminisation surgery and ‘passing’.

If the goal is better access to toilets, realistically that means more unisex facilities, balancing that against the needs of people with other protected characteristics.

Trans people would be better served if their ‘advocates’ engaged properly with the issue instead of dismissing all discussion as toxic.

I think it is mighty handy to have a few drive-by (disappointingly unBrave&Stunning) scolders for any undecided lurkers.

👉 "How can we police which lovely laydeez use the loos without invasive inspections?" = People-of-gender will break the law deliberately, and knowing that are overriding other users' informed consent.

👉 "No laydee would go to all the trouble of transitioning just to invade female spaces" = Demonstrating utter ignorance that activists haven't been forcing policies of self-ID on every place, or thinking that mandating extreme surgery and lifelong medicalisation is a Kind position to take?

👉 "Laydeez are laydeez because they're ladylike, except in sports (or sometimes, it is Kindly acknowledged, rape crisis/prisons)" = Proving that they don't really believe the lie themselves, but just want to claim moral superiority and policing of speech over those they want to call Bad People.

Exactly @Kucinghitam

That reads like an article by Sylvia Pankhurst , updated a bit of course @Szygy . Irony bypass material...

What was it they said to us when we pointed out the dangers of men (inc ladymen) in women’s toilets?
Theres nothing to stop men going into women’s toilets anyway
and
If a ladyman with bad intentions tries to harm you you can always call the authorities.

So, now it’s clarified that all kinds of men need to use the men’s, why doesn’t the same apply?
I mean a bad man could have entered the women’s facilities at any point and attacked a lady man. At which point he would have been within his rights to call the police.
So surely he can still do that in the men’s if something bad happens?
Or was that rule just for us?
So confusing 🫤