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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/05/2025 10:50

I’m pretty sure it’s “different” so the rule will be just for us. We can call the police or security if we are made uncomfortable by threatening behaviour, but that apparently doesn’t apply to them.

ThatCyanCat · 05/05/2025 10:53

DeanElderberry · 05/05/2025 09:41

I think I misread a mildly ironic post, but still, just to underline the point ;

How the flip can a (transwo)man look more like a woman than an actual woman does?

The woman is a woman. What she looks like is what a woman looks like.

He is a man. What he looks like is what a cosplaying man looks like. Usually obvious, often promoting an offensive stereotype. But not like a woman.

Edited

How the flip can a (transwo)man look more like a woman than an actual woman does?

They don't, obviously. He's making it up. They will be 6' bearded transmen who sing bass when he wants to employ the Transman Gotcha (fully addressed in the SC ruling, which he will not have read) and "intersex" when he wants to spread misinformation about DSDs.

When women weren't allowed to vote or go to university, nobody had any worries about how to enforce it.

Keeptoiletssafe · 05/05/2025 11:04

If someone cannot safely go to the loo…they are effectively unable to leave their home. They cannot work. They cannot socialise. They cannot participate in political meetings. They cannot attend church. They cannot go to court. They have effectively ceased to exist in public space.

You’re just describing what already happens because of toilet design changes. What about ‘go to school’, Mr Dunt? If you have a school that has cubicles built for privacy (as per DfE standard specification for all toilets) then the most vulnerable children with invisible disabilities, though who self harm, those who are doing drugs which can lead to seizures (spiked vapes), those being assaulted, those having medical emergencies eg. strokes etc are unsafe. Children can literally ‘cease to exist’.

This is really scary for those who have disabilities - there is a knowledge these designs are dangerous.

What is the common reason in schools for changing all the toilets into mixed sex? So they can be gender neutral. And mixed sex toilets designs are always private. Some of the newer schools boasted all gender neutral toilets.

This is why the Supreme Court decision is so important for so many people. The DfE know now that schools have to provide single sex toilets. Now the DfE should go on to say that the standard design for single sex toilets has at least a floor-to-door gap and so private cubicles have to be specifically listed and justified - NOT the other way round. Safety first.

Being in a correctly designed single sex loo could save lives, anyone’s life, at their most vulnerable.

As for assaults, do some research. There’s many FOI requests from police forces about what goes on in public loos and school loos. Rapes are committed by males. No you can’t keep men out, but why would you think private mixed sex spaces are the way forward?

You’ve never thought about women’s or children’s safety? Or the medically vulnerable?

If you want to be really progressive, you need to campaign for mixed sex spaces with door gaps. Good luck with that.

ThatCyanCat · 05/05/2025 11:12

The problem with ceiling to floor doors is that they make it harder to get in in an emergency. People who are about to collapse often feel unwell beforehand so they go to a toilet cubicle. If they collapse in there, it is much harder to reach them or get them out with no gap.

Toilet and changing room doors and locks aren't really supposed to be impossible to break down, for that reason. They are more to give privacy and let people know it's occupied when they use a normal level of force to open them. If you really wanted to kick the door in, you usually could. That's why it's important not to have men skulking around the communal sink area when women and girls are in there.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/05/2025 11:16

No you can’t keep men out, but why would you think private mixed sex spaces are the way forward?

Quite. 'You might not be able to keep all men out' does not mean 'Therefore we must invite all men in'.

ThatCyanCat · 05/05/2025 11:17

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/05/2025 11:16

No you can’t keep men out, but why would you think private mixed sex spaces are the way forward?

Quite. 'You might not be able to keep all men out' does not mean 'Therefore we must invite all men in'.

It's the "women get raped anyway so it doesn't matter if they get raped more" argument, and I don't understand how anyone can use it and think they are acting decently.

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 11:24

ThatCyanCat · 05/05/2025 11:17

It's the "women get raped anyway so it doesn't matter if they get raped more" argument, and I don't understand how anyone can use it and think they are acting decently.

I'm still shocked to my core when I hear that argument put forward.

That people think it's acceptable to proffer such callous, casual misogyny. It's so telling.

Keeptoiletssafe · 05/05/2025 12:08

ThatCyanCat · 05/05/2025 11:12

The problem with ceiling to floor doors is that they make it harder to get in in an emergency. People who are about to collapse often feel unwell beforehand so they go to a toilet cubicle. If they collapse in there, it is much harder to reach them or get them out with no gap.

Toilet and changing room doors and locks aren't really supposed to be impossible to break down, for that reason. They are more to give privacy and let people know it's occupied when they use a normal level of force to open them. If you really wanted to kick the door in, you usually could. That's why it's important not to have men skulking around the communal sink area when women and girls are in there.

It’s actually easier than that. Precisely because people collapse in toilets then the body is in the way of the door opening, there’s a (retrospective) ‘safety’ feature of being able to open the doors outwards from the outside.

Only with a full height cubicle, if you are the occupant and are just normally going to the loo, you can’t see the feet of the person unlocking and ask them why they are opening it. With a gap it’s protecting and giving the occupant a warning too.

Look at 2.4c and 2.4d in Document T

Ian Dunt’s concern for the sacred caste
Szygy · 05/05/2025 12:41

@Keeptoiletssafe I'm sure you know about it but I highly recommend the book 'The Big Necessity' by the wonderful Rose George - basically about toilets and waste disposal around the world. She’s been brave in standing up for women on TwiX and suffered the usual consequences. But I just wonder where she'd ever start with writing that book today, things have changed so much. The chapters about young girls and women facing rape in rural India etc as they venture out to find somewhere to use a toilet are terrifying and heartbreaking (but it’s a great read nonetheless)

Keeptoiletssafe · 05/05/2025 13:13

Szygy · 05/05/2025 12:41

@Keeptoiletssafe I'm sure you know about it but I highly recommend the book 'The Big Necessity' by the wonderful Rose George - basically about toilets and waste disposal around the world. She’s been brave in standing up for women on TwiX and suffered the usual consequences. But I just wonder where she'd ever start with writing that book today, things have changed so much. The chapters about young girls and women facing rape in rural India etc as they venture out to find somewhere to use a toilet are terrifying and heartbreaking (but it’s a great read nonetheless)

Edited

I have heard of but haven’t read, so thanks for that suggestion!

Wateraid does some great work with women. I was worried in the past about a little about blurring of women’s into mixed sex spaces, but I think recent stuff is good.

Years ago I sponsored Plan to put girls toilets in a village in Africa. They said single sex toilets meant more girls went to school. Bizarre that in this country, girls weren’t guaranteed single sex toilets in school. The Supreme Court judgement will make sure that happens.

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