Ian Dunt’s concern for the sacred caste

[ThisHangrySheep]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/everything-you-need-to-know-about

Caution: blood pressure pills may be required.

“When she is outside in public, she would similarly be forced to walk into a men's toilet and face all the questions and dangers of that decision. Will the men in the loo shout at her? Will they mock her, laugh at her, come on to her? Will she be safe? Will she be respected?”

He doesn’t appear to grasp that this is what women and girls experience all the time.

stupid thing is that if you are a bloke - as I am - you know full well that there is long-established unwritten rules when using toilets. It's this:

1. don't look at anyone else - even if you know them
2. don't engage with them in any way shape or fashion - even if you know them
3. do your business quickly, quietly and get out!

If you're in a men's toilet and a woman (or someone who looks like a woman) enters then 99% of the time you won't notice - because of rule 1 above.

On the off chance that you do notice the most likely outcome is that they will simply be ignored. There is a small chance that the woman might get a shout out along the lines of 'alright love, the women's is next door!'

The chances of men, mocking, coming on to or even attacking said woman are remote in the extreme.

There is a really interesting sentence in this article: “It authorises the kinds of exemptions you’d expect from Britain: succession, the descent of peerage, the administration of trusts and the disposition of trusts”. So all the rights that in general only men have to inherit wealth and position.

I don’t know who Ian Dunt but he dismisses this as “Mad feudal shit, basically” i.e a transwoman who is imposing into women’s spaces because he wants to be a woman can magically be male again to inherit a title or a property - and this is just OK, just some stuff from many years ago that we can’t possibly change, nothing to worry our silly little heads about. Does he think women are that stupid that we would not see the sheer hypocrisy of this?

The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Denial?

i.e a transwoman who is imposing into women’s spaces because he wants to be a woman can magically be male again to inherit a title or a property

the HoL made sure that hereditary peers couldn't be bumped from the title by an older sister saying she was a man, or a distant relative saying to a Trans Woman Lord that he had the rightful claim to the title as the nearest male. Having always said that it meant biological sex but made the law coherent. Which is what was said by the SC.

Whether primogeniture is a good or bad thing is a completely different argument.

What Dunt and men like him don't seem to grasp is that they are also men and could be part of a culture that challenges any attempted threat to transwomen using a same sex facility. You know by budging up, being accepting and yes, kind. Stop making women carry the can for their own inaction.

Well if what we’re seeing is the denial phase we’d all better squish in to the cupboard under my stairs for the anger phase !

I think different people are on different stages.

I'm not sure that the argument "nice Good Friday Agreement you 'ave there. Shame if anyfing woz to 'appen to it" is going to be a game changer

I used to follow Ian Dunt post Brexit because, I was seeking out like-minded Remainers.

Alas he's sweary and sneery and quite blokish - think James O'Brien without the platform - so he's just supporting other men with his support for transwomen. He lost over 200k followers when he flounced from X to BlueSky.

He needs to watch the guilty feminist on Trig. Apparently if you see enough bus drivers dressed as clowns over a period of time you will likely think that’s quite normal. I’m sure men will do the same when the occasional TW walks in to the gents.

Time to start putting up posters in the gents stating something like
“transwomen have a legal right to be here. Please do not stare or do anything to make them uncomfortable. Assault is a police matter and this establishment takes threats and acts of violence towards our staff/customers very seriously. We stand with the trans community #keeptranswomensafe”

y’know, do something actually supportive rather than just posting on the socials how tragic it is women have their rights recognised.

“When she [sic] is outside in public, she [sic] would similarly be forced to walk into a men's toilet and face all the questions and dangers of that decision. Will the men in the loo shout at her [sic]? Will they mock her [sic], laugh at her [sic], come on to her [sic]? Will she [sic]be safe? Will she [sic] be respected?”

He won’t know until he tries. Likely it’ll be absolutely fine and, in the unlikely event it isn’t, he can call the police for help.

Had he started doing this when he first put on women’s clothes, or whatever, he and the other men would be used to it by now and nobody would have a problem.

It’s really not complicated.

He was good on Brexit. Otherwise, he's a limp wokebro with classic leftie misogyny (rightie misogyny is different). A real disappointment.

Stonewall already have the perfect poster. It says “Some people are trans, get over it.”

The fact that they are not pushing that line now is because that poster was only ever designed to get women to shut up about men in their spaces.

Ian Rhyming Slang can do one.

Dorian Lynskey is another disappointment. An expert on Orwell and 1984 but compelling people to say that men are women is apparently perfectly fine. Ian Dunt made a real point during the Brexit interim period (post vote, pre departure) of learning the laws and how they interact with the markets and real world and expressing that in clear terms. It is a huge shame he can't do that again here. His book on liberalism is good but he seems unaware that what appears to be liberal is actually regressive when it conflicts with reality.

I agree with the PP who said the Lib bros need to be visibly and vocally budging up to make the TWs welcome in the men's loos.

Well, exactly. Like all those universities with their posters in the women’s toilets, they’ll be binning them now when they could be recycling them with a flourish of the sharpie.

The GRA was passed in 2004. TRA have had over 20 years to sort out their own spaces that affirm their identities that dont impact on women.

But they couldnt be arsed. Why Dunt is blaming everyone apart from TRA is beyond me.

Ian. Poppet.

Your concern for men is noted.
That you had absolutely no concern about these things happening to women is also noted.

You seem to be missing the entire half of the story that was why women fought to their rights in law to be clarified and protected, maybe look into that. They didn't just do it one day when they were bored between manicures and felt like upsetting men.

If anything happens to men in men's spaces then yes that will be awful. I'd point out that the body count of women harmed, raped, assaulted, excluded etc is quite high now just in the ones that have gone through court. I'd also add what we were told by gender ideologists: that there was an acceptable amount of harm that just had to be sucked up for the greater good, and 100 or so murders or assaults wouldn't really matter in the big picture.

How do you and other men feel about that now that you're thinking it might be men that this happens to and not women?

Actually I am not saying myself I'm fine with anyone being assaulted or hurt, I am not disturbed enough that I'd ever consider saying such things to anyone, never mind someone in a vulnerable situation. But I would say that even if something does happen to a man, then it will still be a problem to be solved about third spaces or making mens spaces safer, not just dumping the danger and exclusion and humiliations etc back on women.

I applaud your great concern for men in mens spaces.

What do you plan to do to help with this other than try and dump these men back on women and make women suffer what you think men are too good for? Or destroy their legal protections to benefit men? And have you ever considered help with your obvious very serious male supremacism issues?

A sharpie isn’t even needed, is it? The posters just urges people to ignore others that they thought were in the wrong space. They just need to remove them from the women’s and put them in the men’s.

Someone posted one on another thread and I think it said something along the lines of “they are ok to be here” so I’d make the point that TW have the legal right to be in male toilets, changing rooms, etc but I’d imagine there’s a whole set of them with slightly different wording so yes, just pull the old switcheroo.

Awww, men are sad, girls. Hands up. Who's going to volunteer to throw away their legal protections and have Police Officer Susan, all six feet of her plus beard, strip search you because it's part of Susan's privilege of identifying as a woman, (don't forget your hate incident police record to wreck your career and life time working prospects if you flinch or say you don't consent!)

Or how about spending the night on a hospital ward with a catheter in and a man who's watching you with all your bits out and the nurses managing you through gappy curtains and who if you're really lucky won't turn out to be a voyeur or a rapist, and will just be the cause of your major humiliation and being on alert all the time instead of being able to do any actual recovering?

Or take off your period stained clothes with this very nice man here who despite seeing your utter humilation wishes to stay in the room while you do it for reasons he.... hasn't really explained?

Or who's up for staying in their life threatening relationship because their trauma responses mean they can't share the refuge they've been offered with the several lovely men living there?

Come on, there's a bus to get under right here!

‘Unlike an open changing room in a gym, say, female toilets are composed entirely of individual loos with locked doors and walls around them. Given that they already have privacy built in, it will actually be very difficult to justify a ban on trans women.’

Why do you think privacy should be more important than safety?

Presumably you are a healthy male. So you will be the least needing of the door gaps which reduce the privacy built in, but increase the safety. You aren’t thinking of anyone outside your own experience.

But if you felt ill and rushed to the toilet and then had a medical emergency, you’d be really grateful for the design to be a single sex design.

Single sex toilet designs are the only ones that have door gaps. They are better for children and women because they have the safety of being seen if anything is happening inside the cubicle that shouldn’t. Because they are the ones that are more likely to be assaulted in toilets.

You do realise the tens of thousands of people with invisible disabilities are at a disadvantage because if they have a hypo, seizure, asthma attack, etc etc, they won’t be seen?

If you insist on mixed sex toilets, you are discriminating against women, children, those with invisible disabilities and anyone having a medical emergency.

Single sex toilets with door gaps are very reasonable adjustments to keep everyone safe.

They still don't get it, if it's proportionate to have a single sex space then it needs to be single sex and transwomen are male. They are still trying to claim it's a different bar for these males than those males (because those ones aren't proper males) who are the transphobic ones?