Nursery Pride face painting

[insomniaclife]

Went to pick up three year old from nursery.
Staff and all kids in her class had rainbows painted on their faces.
“nice rainbows” I said. Staff said “we’re celebrating Pride”.

Is this normal? The timing seems odd - it’s not Pride week is it?

These ‘extreme views’ are held by Stonewall, all Trans organisations, and most of the protestors to the SC ruling.

No. Someone else said that queer thought included that. You replied to dismiss them and say they'd fallen for right-wing misinformation. ("It doesn't include that FFS. Stop getting your news from Facebook and GB News.")

What I provided was direct quotes from a range of the core foundational queer theorists that showed this was not a right-wing invention. You then went quiet.

I'd charitably assumed that was because you were unaware of that, not that you were aware but felt it was fine.

The CEO of Stonewall likened lesbians who aren't interested in dating trans women to sexual racists.

And over 300 LGBT organisations were involved in trying to have the UK's only LGB charity stripped of its charitable status.

Let’s be honest though, the likelihood is slim to none really. The children won’t have any concept of people’s sexual orientation at nursery age and they don’t need to at that age. Why make them grow up before they need to?

Stonewall has never said gay or lesbians who don't want to date transgender people are bigots or transphobic as far as I know. Do you have a link where they've said this?

Have any of them since denounced those views? Butler is still very publically active in the queer and gender theory space and still publishing.

They hear about opposite sex relationships all the time. Why are same sex relationships more grown up? Some men and women love each other, some women and women love each other, some men are men love each other. It's easy enough to explain in an age appropriate way.

It seems there is quite a lot you don't know. That's fine, and true of everyone. What you can't plausibly claim though is that the rainbows being painted on preschoolers stand for all the things Micaela64 agrees with and none of the bits she doesn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/29/if-lesbian-prefers-same-sex-dates-thats-not-bigotry-desire-personal-thing

I'm interested in the here and now, not 40 years ago. The Q doesn't include that and you know it.

Nancy Kelley, Chief Exec Stonewall

”Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

"What if they did face paint for Ukraine? What they did Catholic face paint? What if they did White Pride face paint?"

It all feels very similar to the pithy, "What about International Men's Day" remarks that happen every year on IWD. Not everything is about you, David. You might think feminism is unnecessary because you see equality now. But on the ground, we're still feeling the daily malignant sting of the patriarchy. Just like all of you are disregarding the importance of continued visible recognition of gay and lesbian relationships.

What do you REALLY think the lesson planning looked like for this activity? They're probably looking at their events calendar and coming up with fun activities to mark those with the children. It's not political for the children. It's probably not political to the staff. It's face paint. It's not that deep.

"My child’s painful eczema means nothing to you?"
@CleaningSilverCandlesticks

😅 Your child's eczema means absolutely nothing to me in the context of this thread!

That is a misinteretation of what she said:

"Sexuality is personal… but if, when dating, you are writing off entire groups like people of colour or trans people, it’s worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attraction.”

She is saying it's worth exploring whether not being into a specific group (not just trans people) comes from a place of prejudice and societal prejudices, not that they're a bigot or transphobic. Of course it's possible people have been shaped by their conditioning but that's not always the case and many people just have a different preference or attraction.

If that were true then why are ‘Q’ organisations pushing inappropriate sexual content into schools and nurseries?

In other words lesbians need to explore whether they are just prejudiced against men? You don’t think that is homophobic?

Are they or is that something you saw on GB News?

Yes they are. I don’t watch GB News, do you?

I'm sorry but I don't know what queer theory means to everyone who promotes it. But I can know what it means to the people who created and popularised it. That's not some sneaky trick, especially for something conceived of in living memory. It's taking ideas seriously, and not assuming that people don't really mean what they say and must actually mean something more to my taste.

As a lesbian, not wanting to have sex with a dick is a societal prejudice? Don’t you realise how homophobic this is?

@Micaela64

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/amp/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

Hang on, which is it? The face painting is justified because it's an important political battle that hasn't yet been won? Or it's justified because it's anodyne and apolitical?

You seem to want to run both ideas.

No it's not prejudice to not be into dicks and not all trans women have dicks FYI.

The vast majority (over 95%) have not had surgery to remove their penis. Men without a penis are still men.

I am not reading the whole thread, but my DD's nursery used to celebrate Pride, and not all parents did it (it was always 'come dress in rainbow clothes if you like'), but we did with DD, and it was lovely to explain to her what it was about. In the same way, they celebrated various festivals that had nothing to do with us, but I didn't mind and quite liked it. Her school does Black History Month, ditto.

Remember that for small children it is not really about 'sexuality' per se; it's about the fact some kids have two mummies or two daddies.

[Edit: Michaela since edited to clarify her point, so the below is not a reply to her]

So part of what the rainbow means to you is that same-sex attraction is, at least some of the time, suspect, and possibly an indication of prejudice.

That's an entirely legitimate position for you to argue (I'd argue against). But I don't think it should be painted on children.

(Obviously I don't: I wouldn't even paint ideas I do agree with on children).

In a pluralistic society we must recognise that this is now a symbol, to many people, of an ideology that is personally antagonistic to their rights. Many of them are same-sex attracted people. Not in the sense of 'some lunatic fringe interpretation' but in the sense of 'all the mainstream LGBT organisations'. And that being the case, the same sensitivity applies to it as to any other symbol that is at the heart of a live and heated political debate: nursery schools shouldn't be painting them on classes of children.

Jeez, my children's nursery certainly didn't! I don't believe that Ofsted is going to mark a nursery down for not celebrating Pride. This is one nursery's OTT interpretation of the EYFS requirement on cultural diversity.

Mine did do a lot about Rosa Parks... which went completely over the head of my DC. To them, it was an activity about colouring in a bus. When we found that old paper bus recently, I asked if they remembered what it was about, and they drew an absolute blank. I think the simple fact of attending a nursery with a diverse intake and staff will have done a lot more on the cultural diversity front than the shoe-horned in bus activity.