Interim guidance from EHRC is out

[impossibletoday]

https://x.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1915853104421167211?t=qbUrcHVdtPyqVB1uZ5depA&s=19

Apologies, I’ve added the wrong link earlier. This one covers the information on the GRPB committee stages:

https://scottish-women.com/2018/03/21/scottish-bill-confirms-transwomen-are-women/

Your friend is not a nice person though or 'extremely kind' to women as they have been violating womens boundaries and spaces all this time. That makes them a horrible person imo. Not someone I would want to be acquaintances with, let alone friends.

There will be an increasing trend towards gender neutral toilets. I'm absolutely fine with this and will be pushing for this change at my workplace.

Why would you do that? How dare you do that?
Thankfully, you won’t be paid any attention to.

You might work for the same large company I do, which did exactly the same, and has received multiple complaints from customers saying they will withdraw their services.

Oh, that’s positive.

Yes, he is.

Why? The mens have cubicles. That's what us women are constantly told. 'Who cares that men are in there? You're in cubicles!' we are told. So do the mens.

Do you not accept or recognise the discomfort of women who don't want men in spaces reserved for women where sex segregation is a matter of custom, practice and law, and for reasons of privacy, dignity, safety, and the prevention of trauma? Men's rights don't trump women's rights.

Work place regulations will mean that certainly, additional gender neutral/unisex toilets can be added (to accommodate the various special identities of people in a workplace). But they won’t be able to remove the single sex to replace them with gender neutral/unisex toilets. Apart from breaching the workplace regulations, and the equality act, it’s been confirmed by the EHRC interim guidance that removing female only provision & installing only gender neutral is likely to be indirect discrimination against women.

Good luck with your arguments though. 👍

Workplaces have to provide single-sex toilets.

That's fine only if gender neutral is in addition to single sex toilets, not as a replacement.

He'll be fine @PoisedRubyLion He will be with his people

Frankly, it's about time men were forced to address male violence.

Whilst male violence has been the topic of much feminist work, it shouldn't be up to women to fix it. Those [transwo]Men who claim to have experienced misogyny should be perfectly placed to lead on this. It would be a far better use of their time than threatening women who have said "no".

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that workplaces have to provide single sex toilets for staff, but can have unisex for customers.

How bizarre that you presume to know anything about my workplace - or the amount of influence I have with relevant decision makers.

I don’t presume any such thing?
But the law is clear, so push away (fruitlessly) 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is the trouble with wishful thinking. And also with deliberate obfuscation of the law and telling people that the law really means whatever they want it to mean. It sets up expectations that can't be met in reality and then the comedown is painful. I am sorry for your friend's situation. Your friend should never have been told that they were allowed to intrude on women. Luckily for your friend there are already a lot of fully enclosed toilets which can be used by either sex, and I imagine that a lot of employers etc will provide more of them now, so your friend wont have to use the blokes all that much. But just think how much more provision your friend would have now if transwomen hadn't been told for so many years they could just use whichever toilets they liked regardless.

I don't think I've ever met a transwomen who I've been shocked to learn was a transwoman. Occasionally I've thought "she's either an extremely masculine woman or a transwoman" but never met someone in real life who looked so much like a women that I was shocked to discover they were a transwoman.

As I understand it from Dp, men have many more boundaries in the loos than women do. Don't stand at the urinal next to someone if you can leave a gap between you, don't talk, definitely don't look, cubicles are fine, the transwomen will be A ok. There's an etiquette that they already know from being boys.

I would advocate the majority are gender neutral with a few separate options to suit a variety of preferences/needs. Many people, for example, have health reasons that mean they need greater privacy/discretion for toiletting needs.

I was thinking how on earth did this movement convince anyone of anything?
And then I remembered my old flatmate's saying
"Bullshit Baffles Brains"
Says it all really. Hopefully the bullshit will be fading off and we will end up with a common sense fair position asap

So why would you advocate for gender neutral?

Also, you can't reason someone out of position they didn't arrive at using reason.

I don't think that is always the case. Often service providers will have staff toilets and service users/customer toilets. I am a member of an
Organisation that suddenly, without consultation to its members , changed its toilet provision, having now some gender neutral, and keeping the more hidden and hard to get to, one or two options as single sex. I contacted them through their member survey about this and asked explicitly for communication. They have refused to engage with me at all on this matter. My subscription is quite a lot per year, it is not a sport club and I feel their response is absolutely inadequate. In my reply on their member survey , I did state that I had concerns as a member and I hoped their staff had not been pressured into accepting similar arrangements. So the guidance is not that helpful to me. I know plenty of gay individuals attend but I have actually never seen a trans male or female, and it is an event where dressing up is welcome.

I don’t understand this place sometimes. A lot of GC feminists say trans people deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, but how is referring to trans women as ‘he’ doing that?