Interim guidance from EHRC is out

[impossibletoday]

https://x.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1915853104421167211?t=qbUrcHVdtPyqVB1uZ5depA&s=19

Either nice, or afraid of being done for hate speech (which was a real possibility).

Yeah, I got a bit lost with the brain argument part. Reminds me of when you read the ingredients for a bottle of olive oil and it says something like ‘olive oil obtained from olives using olives of mechanical olive means’ or whatever 😂

Interesting that you have put 'kind' as a female quality.

They will have known, hands, gait, shoulders, voice, etc but they've been polite. And kind.

Yes, they're male. That they pass (though I doubt that very much as in reality none of them truly actually pass, so with all due respect I think you have 'friendship goggles' on) but still violate womens spaces is just saying that they've been practicing deception and getting away with it. Which doesn't make them a decent person.

I was thinking this earlier when looking back over the SC judgment - had they not nudged further and further towards getting TWAW and self-ID enshrined in law, we wouldn’t have had cases like the one last year the SC referred to where an intact TW who wanted to keep their penis fully functioning for sexual gratification purposes being granted a GRC.

And without the notion that women can have penises, men can be lesbians and all that stuff they pushed for on social media, and had GRCs been reserved only for the kind of fully surgically transitioned TW as in Goodwin and not for men who just changed their name, then the SC might well have reached a different conclusion.

That's one way of putting it; another way, which sounds more in keeping with the current validation of people being entitled their own spaces, is that lesbians would sometimes like a space of their own.
I thought we'd got past calling that kind of thing 'phobic'.

...And is male. I appreciate it is a shock, but the male facilities are the ones your friend should have been using all along. If he is a lovely person he will want to do the right thing.

Other pps are right, you simply don't know whether your friend passed or not to other women. And in any case, a male who passes isn't any less male than one who doesn't. And therefore shouldn't be in women's toilets etc.

This is the last time I will respond.

Up to now anyone saying a TW is male, either over the Internet or to their face, has been met with violence or the police. Support your friend by ensuring they use the correct toilets, changing rooms, and anything else, that is based on their biological sex. Don't encourage them to continue to break the law.

There isn't any evidence for brain structures in TW being like women's or TM's being like mens.

Thoughts and feelings are not falsifiable evidence.

It’s always been about incremental changes, enough to nudge things in the direction of travel trans orgs wanted.

This all began with Scottish Trans Alliance’s James Morton (supported by Talat Yaqoob of Women 50:50) giving evidence to the Scottish Parliament committee on the GRPB bill, suggesting the definition of women be changed to include men. There was (I think) a Labour MSP who pushed the amendment that ended up in the bill, off the back of STA’s evidence.

This was 1st picked up & more widely disseminated by Scottish Women - this piece was posted by FPFW at the time:

https://scottish-women.com/2018/09/13/hoodwinked-by-the-government/

All the details of how this started are in there. While TRA might well be raging that this got litigated to the end point & final judgement went against the trans lobbyists, this was actually their plan all along. It’s just that none of us were meant to notice. Unfortunately for STA, Susan of Scottish Women did, and FWS took the opportunity after a government review/consultation to start the JR on the definition of women used in the GRPB bill. The rest is history (or should that be herstory?)

Tbe question is - if somebody with a beard comes into a women’s changing room and claims to be a biological woman, how do I know they are not just a man claiming to be a woman but is in fact a man who wants to watch women get undressed? Before tbe ruling, I could have said that it’s a women’s changing room and that they need to leave, but now what happens? If they say ‘I’m a biological woman’ am I going to have to ask for proof?

Watch them walk in, you can tell.

In fairness, organisations, policies, politicians etc all said that it was fine for transwomen to use women’s spaces and promoted the misinterpretation of the law, so I don’t know if that would disqualify her friend from being a decent person.

However, now that it has been clarified, if he continued to use women’s spaces, that would be a different

Bissexual people sometimes face hostility from gay and lesbian people in LGB spaces designated for use by all three of L, G, and B. And at the same time, lesbians and gays have the right to lesbian spaces and gay spaces that bi people should stay out of.

I think the onus will be on them to prove they’re female, not on you to prove they’re not.

If they look sufficiently.male-like to reasonably cause distress to other women, they can be excluded. This is clearly laid out in the Supreme Court judgement.

Yes a lot of people have been misled, and that's not their fault, but it's now clear, as you say.

Before the ruling, they could have said they were a transwoman and you wouldn’t be able to do anything about it.

Now the law is clear that men are not allowed into women’s spaces, so you will not be punished for questioning it, as opposed to previously like in the poster

There's a Shakira song about this...

That poster is shameful.

Thanks for the ear worm!

That's because no one would dare say anything, on both counts.

It's the same reason we know a transwoman is there, but don't say anything. The risk of getting laid out by a male is strong. And if we're all told that TWAW and we must accept it, there is a collective code of silence. So your friends 'knew', but also knew better than to say anything.

He shouldn't have been using women's toilets in the first place.

Yes he should use the mens as he is one.

I do understand that is now the law and where she should go, but I can’t get over the discomfort I feel about her going to the mens

It was always the law, it's just been spelled out more clearly.