Interim guidance from EHRC is out

[impossibletoday]

https://x.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1915853104421167211?t=qbUrcHVdtPyqVB1uZ5depA&s=19

https://x.com/EHRC/status/1915846890685419681?t=y3d8AtQIRu3p8k6LqNqxew&s=19

Very, very clear cut. I wonder how the BBC will twist it?

looking forward to reading it.

Well that's not going to go down well. I can hear the gnashing and wailing from here.

I'm a little surprised they've released it this quickly. I expected a bit more delay and ' making sure we've covered all the issues'.

Here’s a link for people who aren’t on X.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment

I love the smell of clarity in the evening…..

I bet this is the version that half the office wanted and the other half voted down - so it didn’t take long to dust off. Must be cathartic to get that out into the sunlight!

Lovely! Assuming that most places open to the public are also workplaces, so would be covered by the toilets provision?

And making it clear that all mixed sex provision discriminates against women rules out that particular gotcha?

Excellent. I will send a copy to my employer on Monday. Together with the copy of the email I sent them 4 years ago pointing out they were breaking the law, and please could they change their policy, which they refused to do…..

They have said it’s interim - a more comprehensive one making it even clearer for the TRA at the back will follow

“Schools must provide separate single-sex toilets for boys and girls over the age of 8. It is also compulsory for them to provide single-sex changing facilities for boys and girls over the age of 11.
Pupils who identify as trans girls (biological boys) should not be permitted to use the girls’ toilet or changing facilities, and pupils who identify as trans boys (biological girls) should not be permitted to use the boys’ toilet or changing facilities. Suitable alternative provisions may be required”

They didn't mention the WI or guides but that explanation that a female lesbian group can not allow in transwomen makes guides and WI positions untenable.

They've clearly been pulling all nighters all week but I suspect they will have wargamed the implications of the ruling both ways so would have had stuff in the can before the judgement.

They have no choice but to put it in writing "A trans woman is a biological man"

Wow, that was quick.

So... I do actually have some questions about this from the point of view of trans people.

It says very clearly that trans people should not use single sex toilets for members of the opposite sex, but that in some circumstances it may also be reasonable to exclude them from single sex toilets for members of their own sex, but also that they should not be left without any toilet provision at all.

OK...

How does that work in practice? There are going to have to be unisex toilets everywhere, aren't there? But there aren't yet.

The other issue I have relates to associations. The guidance confirms it is lawful for an association to restrict its membership to people who share two protected categories, for example, gay men or lesbian women. On a very strict interpretation of this, it would seem that you can't have LGBT associations, or even LGB ones. You could have an association for lesbian women and gay men, because that would be limiting membership to people who share one protected characteristic (being attracted to members of the same sex). Bisexuals have a separate protected characteristic, because being attracted to members of both sexes is listed in a separate category in the legislation. So technically an LGB association would not satisfy the criteria because the B do not share the same protected characteristic as the LG. LGBT associations are even more messy, because T is obviously a completely different protected characteristic to the LGB, and although some T people are also L or G, many of them are heterosexual. So, no shared protected characteristic, does this mean they can't form an association which excludes straight "cisgender" (SORRY!) people?

In reality I am sure that no one is interested in policing people's sexuality or membership of LGBT associations, but I am quite surprised that the EHRC have been this prescriptive in the preliminary guidance, because that will only add fuel to the fire.

I must admit that I was a little nervous that it would be a bit wishy washy when there was an update.

But fuck me. That is exceptionally clear. I'm bloody delighted!

Well I hope my employers are looking at this. They were very quick, post SC judgment, to issue a statement about their commitment to and solidarity with trans colleagues blah blah (no mention of women of course)

I think that there are very few situations though where a male person with a transgender identity will not be able to use a male single sex space.

in some circumstances it may also be reasonable to exclude them from single sex toilets for members of their own sex [...] There are going to have to be unisex toilets everywhere, aren't there?

"In some circumstances" (the opposite of "in no circumstances"). Exclusion shouldn't be the norm.

And just like that, transwomen became a men’s problem to sort out 🙌

I agree, but putting that in the interim guidance before people have even had time to digest the judgment is quite a bold move, in my opinion. And it does give ammunition to the trans rights lobby who will say that trans people are not allowed to pee anywhere.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

On this "You could have an association for lesbian women and gay men, because that would be limiting membership to people who share one protected characteristic (being attracted to members of the same sex). Bisexuals have a separate protected characteristic, because being attracted to members of both sexes is listed in a separate category in the legislation."

I have not read the full guidance so may be wrong. But under data laws (that is what I used to work in) and I think under the EA 'Sexual orientiaion' is the characterisitic. And under that, you can be straight / gay / bi etc so all those fall under a single protected characteristic.

I agree T is separate as it does not necessarily follow if you are T your sexual orientation changes.

An lgb association does not discriminate on the grounds of sex so isn't applying the single sex exemption so would be allowed.

The protected characteristic that links with LGB is ‘sexual orientation’. So a lesbian / bi / hetero woman and gay / bi / hetero man share that characteristic.

Re the toilets, I think it means that if you want to exclude transpeople from the correct sex toilet then you must offer alternative toilets but you if you don't want to exclude them you can just have single sex toilets