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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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22
selffellatingouroborosofhate · 26/04/2025 21:09

Willyoujustbequiet · 26/04/2025 19:00

False comparison.

A tiny minority of Muslim extremists have been involved in bombings whereas surely all trans lie everyday as they purport to portray themselves as something which they are not.

Edited

There are some TWs who know they don't pass and use male facilities. Miranda Yardley, for example.

KnottyAuty · 26/04/2025 21:10

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 20:58

I'm so sorry that the people on this thread are being so heartless about your friend. She sounds like a great person and is lucky to know someone like you. Please don't take these specific responses as representative of the general population - these people have a years-long track record of descending upon and dogpiling anyone who demonstrates the slightest dissent and it gets incredibly vicious at times. They'be been hurling abuse at me for years for daring to speak out - they keep rotating accounts because they keep getting banned but the writing styles and language used is trivially recognisable.

I'm so sorry that this anti-trans reactionary crusade has destroyed your friend's ability to live her life in peace. I wish I could make it ok - turn back the clock and find some way to avert this disaster. I am so shocked and terrified that I honestly don't know what to do, and the gloating and callousness in evidence on this thread and elsewhere is chilling.

Please make sure she doesn't see this thread and the way people here are talking about her - only a complete fool (guillty as charged) would expose herself to this kind of abuse willingly. I would strongly advise warning her off any online space infested with trans-hostile rhetoric, especially right now with 4chan down - I know I have to take regular detox breaks from this board because after a few days it feels like it has started seeping into your soul and the bizarre contortions and doublespeak are exhausting to decipher.

Give your friend a hug from me. I'm so sorry. I don't know if we can fix this nightmare within our lifetimes at this point, but I will never stop trying.

Why are you on mumsnet at all if it’s so bad for you. You’re not adding a great deal to the discussion. There seem to be a number of trans women on here “engaging” and from my very limited experience it’s more like mansplaining than the other men (most welcome btw) who come to these boards for debate. You clearly have made up your mind so if you’re hoping some of us will suddenly shift to your way of thinking you’re wrong. Most people started at the Be Kind place and after bad experiences end up here. Those experiences arent necessarily assaults or attacks they are feeling the distress of seeing our words and experiences removed from maternity policies. Or seeing beloved groups like the guides, WI and the La Leche League ruined. You give nothing and concede nothing then expect sympathy it’s selfish and un persuasive. You’re the one who comes over as heartless and self obsessed. Why do t you do us all a favour and take a permanent detox break from mumsnet? Find some friends and hang out with them instead of boring us?

GarlicSmile · 26/04/2025 21:16

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 26/04/2025 10:07

I suspect this is a legal challenge in the making. To comply with the EA2010 protected characteristic of sex requirements, service providers etc need to know the sex of people, and this is drastically undermined while people can very easily get ID docs that record their sex incorrectly, and get a GRC, and therefore a birth certificate in their opposite sex, with minimal effort and cost.

And it has always been glaringly incoherent. It's just that policy-makers have spent the last 15 years acting as though certificates really do change people's sex.

I'd like all the wrong-sex markers to be rescinded, but can't see that being practicable. Best hope is that govt orgs will stop permitting sex-changed documentation asap. If people really have to formalise their gender choices, just add a "TG" to their actual sex.

Helleofabore · 26/04/2025 21:18

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 20:58

I'm so sorry that the people on this thread are being so heartless about your friend. She sounds like a great person and is lucky to know someone like you. Please don't take these specific responses as representative of the general population - these people have a years-long track record of descending upon and dogpiling anyone who demonstrates the slightest dissent and it gets incredibly vicious at times. They'be been hurling abuse at me for years for daring to speak out - they keep rotating accounts because they keep getting banned but the writing styles and language used is trivially recognisable.

I'm so sorry that this anti-trans reactionary crusade has destroyed your friend's ability to live her life in peace. I wish I could make it ok - turn back the clock and find some way to avert this disaster. I am so shocked and terrified that I honestly don't know what to do, and the gloating and callousness in evidence on this thread and elsewhere is chilling.

Please make sure she doesn't see this thread and the way people here are talking about her - only a complete fool (guillty as charged) would expose herself to this kind of abuse willingly. I would strongly advise warning her off any online space infested with trans-hostile rhetoric, especially right now with 4chan down - I know I have to take regular detox breaks from this board because after a few days it feels like it has started seeping into your soul and the bizarre contortions and doublespeak are exhausting to decipher.

Give your friend a hug from me. I'm so sorry. I don't know if we can fix this nightmare within our lifetimes at this point, but I will never stop trying.

Oh dear.

'Please don't take these specific responses as representative of the general population'

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Here is some yougov polling. We have others if PoisedRubyLion needs further reassurance that the majority of female people do not want any male person (above about 8 years old) in their spaces.

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 11% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 16%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 15%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 16%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 20%
Don't know 26 [25] 22%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 4%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 6%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 16%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 5%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 17%
Don't know 27 [25] 16%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

It is really pretty decisive. And if you look at the data, labour party voters were well represented by the 'should not be allowed' answers.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

Theeyeballsinthesky · 26/04/2025 21:18

Igneococcus · 26/04/2025 21:08

I actually don't think you're sad, you're absolutely revelling in the drama.

absolutely. Butters has been hanging around here for ages now telling us how terrible we all are. If it was all as toxic and damaging as they claim, they wouldn’t post here. I mean it’s not compulsory to do so & anyone being seriously damaged would have stepped away

and yet they don’t….

illinivich · 26/04/2025 21:20

It's all a lie. Nobody has told anyone that its possible to live as the opposite sex, change sex or compel anyone else to take part in the fantasy. Men have never had the right to use women's spaces.

Therapist, doctors and surgeons do not tell their patients that living, medication and surgery can give a man a womans body.

Passports, driving licences, reissued birth certificates are pieces of paper, they do not change a persons sex.

What has happened, for the briefest time, is that the political class lost their minds and indulged a group of men in their fantasy. It could never continue because it makes no sense, takes away women's rights and compromises safeguarding.

In practice, nothing has changed for these men, they have the same id, the same body and the same rights. What they are losing is the power to ignore womens rights.

And suddenly, they arent the centre of the university anymore.

Helleofabore · 26/04/2025 21:20

GailBlancheViola · 26/04/2025 21:04

I transitioned more than a decade before the Equality Act existed, when trans people did not have legal recognition through the GRA, but were still allowed to use single sex facilities that best suited us.

Who allowed you to use female facilities that best suited you? Were women asked? Did it ever occur to you that what best suited you did not suit women? Did you care?

Even back then at a time of all-consuming culture-wide hostility, the idea of being banned from female facilities was patently ridiculous.

Why was it ever patently ridiculous for women to have spaces that were reserved for their exclusive use free from any and all males however they identify?

Falkner hasn't just removed my legal recognition with this guidance and rolled us back to before the Equality Act or even the GRA - she has rolled us back to a point so utterly backward; so patently dehumanising and unworkable that it almost beggars belief.

No, Faulkner has set right the patent lies and distortion of the las 10 or so years whereby women have been threatened, assaulted, dehumanised and told they must accept males into their spaces despite this not and never being the Law.

I cried myself to sleep last night - haven't done that for decades - and the tears came right back when I woke up this morning.

Do you spare any thought for the women who have suffered harm as a direct result of the lies and distortion of the Law? Any tears for them? Any thoughts or concern for all the women who have had to self exclude from facilities designed and designated for them due to the presence of males?

Your crusade has allowed Falkner to destroy everything that anchored my world. If I go out in public and use the facilities I have used my entire adult life and much of my teens, I am breaking the law.

The only ones on a crusade were those on your side of the debate, all women wanted was their rights upheld as per the Law. You have always been breaking the Law, you were never given carte blanche to use those facilities you (general you) took it and then berated and threatened any women who objected.

If I use facilities I am now required to use in the absence of unisex facilities, I automatically breach my right to privacy afforded by the GRA by outing myself. It's unworkable, inhumane and astonishingly irresponsible, not to mention in breach of the ECHR.

You have been breaching the privacy and dignity of women for years, women have rights too you know. It is astonishingly irresponsible that women were ever put in this position in the first place.

Your crusade has destroyed our lives.

The crusade waged in your name has destroyed the lives of countless women.

There are a tiny, tiny number of women in this situation in this country and you have consigned us all to social death. Half my friends are frantically making plans to leave the country; the rest are still in a state of shock.

The emotional, manipulative hyperbole has had it's day.

The callousness; the unbelievable cruelty with which our worlds have been torn apart, and the triumphant crowing that has accompanied it, has genuinely shocked me. It is so brazen - so inhuman in its relish at our suffering that it is hard to see it as unintentional. This is a gloating victory lap.

Mmm, look in the mirror at what your side have been doing to women for the last decade or so.

Before you leap in with the accusations of overplaying the impact, please think how you would feel to be told that you must now exclusively use male-only facilities, would be sent to a male prison if you decide to stand your ground and break the law that's just detonated your social existence and right to privacy, and people are cheering and gloating and crying tears of joy, then laughing about how upset it is going to make you.

Try thinking how women felt at being forced to share spaces with men and being threatened if they objected, that is what has been happening. You never cared one iota about women's right to privacy and as for gloating as I said before look at your own side.

needs to be repeated!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/04/2025 21:23

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 20:58

I'm so sorry that the people on this thread are being so heartless about your friend. She sounds like a great person and is lucky to know someone like you. Please don't take these specific responses as representative of the general population - these people have a years-long track record of descending upon and dogpiling anyone who demonstrates the slightest dissent and it gets incredibly vicious at times. They'be been hurling abuse at me for years for daring to speak out - they keep rotating accounts because they keep getting banned but the writing styles and language used is trivially recognisable.

I'm so sorry that this anti-trans reactionary crusade has destroyed your friend's ability to live her life in peace. I wish I could make it ok - turn back the clock and find some way to avert this disaster. I am so shocked and terrified that I honestly don't know what to do, and the gloating and callousness in evidence on this thread and elsewhere is chilling.

Please make sure she doesn't see this thread and the way people here are talking about her - only a complete fool (guillty as charged) would expose herself to this kind of abuse willingly. I would strongly advise warning her off any online space infested with trans-hostile rhetoric, especially right now with 4chan down - I know I have to take regular detox breaks from this board because after a few days it feels like it has started seeping into your soul and the bizarre contortions and doublespeak are exhausting to decipher.

Give your friend a hug from me. I'm so sorry. I don't know if we can fix this nightmare within our lifetimes at this point, but I will never stop trying.

If you could turn the clock back, there were a thousand ways you (by which I mean trans people in general) could have averted this disaster.

You could have spoken up when male rapists were put in female prisons and said, "Not in our name."

You could have made it perfectly clear that you didn't have a problem with female rape survivors having their own rape crisis groups, and that if they were being denied this for your benefit, that was wrong.

You could have stood up for any of the women who lost their livelihoods for saying something you disagreed with and said that although you disagreed with their opinion, you respected their right to hold it.

You could have publicly called out those among your number who made rape and death threats to feminists, said this isn't what you stand for, not marched shoulder to shoulder with them.

You could have agreed that it was wrong for trans women to compete in women's sports, that that isn't a human right at all and has nothing to do with living your lives in dignity.

You could have said, "Thank you for wanting to profile me on International Women's Day, I'm very honoured, but I think it might get people's backs up if the focus is on me for the one day of the year that is devoted to women. We have Pride Month and Trans History Month and Trans Day of Visibility and I'd be absolutely delighted to do something for you during any of those events instead."

You could have said, "Of course we don't count towards the female quota for board members, come on, don't be ridiculous."

You could have refrained from calling people TERFs and bigots and, well, been kind.

Surely if you actually thought we were all in some kind of sisterhood together, you would have done these things.

But you didn't, did you?

GarlicSmile · 26/04/2025 21:25

Datun · 26/04/2025 10:27

I haven't seen a single person in any of these film clips who confuses me about their sex.

Not one. Where are they all? They keep being used as examples, where are they?

Edited

They're the ones in the film clips 😂

GailBlancheViola · 26/04/2025 21:26

Amen to that MissScarletInTheBallroom, perfectly said.

EasternStandard · 26/04/2025 21:27

illinivich · 26/04/2025 21:20

It's all a lie. Nobody has told anyone that its possible to live as the opposite sex, change sex or compel anyone else to take part in the fantasy. Men have never had the right to use women's spaces.

Therapist, doctors and surgeons do not tell their patients that living, medication and surgery can give a man a womans body.

Passports, driving licences, reissued birth certificates are pieces of paper, they do not change a persons sex.

What has happened, for the briefest time, is that the political class lost their minds and indulged a group of men in their fantasy. It could never continue because it makes no sense, takes away women's rights and compromises safeguarding.

In practice, nothing has changed for these men, they have the same id, the same body and the same rights. What they are losing is the power to ignore womens rights.

And suddenly, they arent the centre of the university anymore.

Exactly.

dynamiccactus · 26/04/2025 21:34

SameyMcNameChange · 26/04/2025 21:04

Passports and driving licences can be amended without a GRC. In fact, they are one of the pieces of paper that can show the panel that you have been ‘living as a woman’ for the required 2 years.

I didn't know that - I'd posted on the London marathon thread that I thought (female) people applying for a good for age place should have to prove their (female) identity. That won't work, then.

Shadowsunray · 26/04/2025 21:37

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 19:29

I don't think you quite understand what you are saying here.

I transitioned more than a decade before the Equality Act existed, when trans people did not have legal recognition through the GRA, but were still allowed to use single sex facilities that best suited us.

Even back then at a time of all-consuming culture-wide hostility, the idea of being banned from female facilities was patently ridiculous.

Falkner hasn't just removed my legal recognition with this guidance and rolled us back to before the Equality Act or even the GRA - she has rolled us back to a point so utterly backward; so patently dehumanising and unworkable that it almost beggars belief.

I cried myself to sleep last night - haven't done that for decades - and the tears came right back when I woke up this morning.

Your crusade has allowed Falkner to destroy everything that anchored my world. If I go out in public and use the facilities I have used my entire adult life and much of my teens, I am breaking the law. If I use facilities I am now required to use in the absence of unisex facilities, I automatically breach my right to privacy afforded by the GRA by outing myself. It's unworkable, inhumane and astonishingly irresponsible, not to mention in breach of the ECHR.

Your crusade has destroyed our lives. There are a tiny, tiny number of women in this situation in this country and you have consigned us all to social death. Half my friends are frantically making plans to leave the country; the rest are still in a state of shock. The callousness; the unbelievable cruelty with which our worlds have been torn apart, and the triumphant crowing that has accompanied it, has genuinely shocked me. It is so brazen - so inhuman in its relish at our suffering that it is hard to see it as unintentional. This is a gloating victory lap.

Before you leap in with the accusations of overplaying the impact, please think how you would feel to be told that you must now exclusively use male-only facilities, would be sent to a male prison if you decide to stand your ground and break the law that's just detonated your social existence and right to privacy, and people are cheering and gloating and crying tears of joy, then laughing about how upset it is going to make you.

We have had males invading our private female spaces against the law for the last decade. Yet you are only willing to see your perspective, poor me, I now have to use the mens, cry, cry. You say imagine if we had to use the mens. We have had the MEN using our spaces without our consent illegally for a decade. I don't care about your tears, I care about the tears of all the women who have fought men like you for privacy and dignity in FEMALE spaces. You are a man. Stop being so hysterical because you have to use the toilet that aligns to your biology. A toilet in which you won't be violating women's boundaries.

You won't understand a word of this, because only your wants matter.

Helleofabore · 26/04/2025 21:38

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/04/2025 21:23

If you could turn the clock back, there were a thousand ways you (by which I mean trans people in general) could have averted this disaster.

You could have spoken up when male rapists were put in female prisons and said, "Not in our name."

You could have made it perfectly clear that you didn't have a problem with female rape survivors having their own rape crisis groups, and that if they were being denied this for your benefit, that was wrong.

You could have stood up for any of the women who lost their livelihoods for saying something you disagreed with and said that although you disagreed with their opinion, you respected their right to hold it.

You could have publicly called out those among your number who made rape and death threats to feminists, said this isn't what you stand for, not marched shoulder to shoulder with them.

You could have agreed that it was wrong for trans women to compete in women's sports, that that isn't a human right at all and has nothing to do with living your lives in dignity.

You could have said, "Thank you for wanting to profile me on International Women's Day, I'm very honoured, but I think it might get people's backs up if the focus is on me for the one day of the year that is devoted to women. We have Pride Month and Trans History Month and Trans Day of Visibility and I'd be absolutely delighted to do something for you during any of those events instead."

You could have said, "Of course we don't count towards the female quota for board members, come on, don't be ridiculous."

You could have refrained from calling people TERFs and bigots and, well, been kind.

Surely if you actually thought we were all in some kind of sisterhood together, you would have done these things.

But you didn't, did you?

Edited

I know you know this MissS, I am adding to it.

To do so would expose that for some occasions, male people were not who they said they were. And this could not be allowed.

It also requires someone to arbitrate who was transgender and who was not.

It showed directly that the entire foundational premise was flawed and that couldn't happen.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/04/2025 21:39

Helleofabore · 26/04/2025 21:38

I know you know this MissS, I am adding to it.

To do so would expose that for some occasions, male people were not who they said they were. And this could not be allowed.

It also requires someone to arbitrate who was transgender and who was not.

It showed directly that the entire foundational premise was flawed and that couldn't happen.

So they did deliberately put us at risk for their own benefit.

GailBlancheViola · 26/04/2025 21:43

these people have a years-long track record of descending upon and dogpiling anyone who demonstrates the slightest dissent and it gets incredibly vicious at times. They'be been hurling abuse at me for years for daring to speak out - they keep rotating accounts because they keep getting banned but the writing styles and language used is trivially recognisable.

That's quite the accusation, where is your evidence? I would report that but I'd rather let it stand so those who read MN can read and see the falsehoods deployed.

I'm so sorry that this anti-trans reactionary crusade has destroyed your friend's ability to live her life in peace.

No anti-trans crusade, what has been waged is an anti-women crusade that has demonstrably ruined countless women's lives and ability to live in peace. Women asked for their rights to be clarified and upheld, the Supreme Court agreed that women do indeed have human rights and they must be upheld.

I wish I could make it ok - turn back the clock and find some way to avert this disaster. I am so shocked and terrified that I honestly don't know what to do, and the gloating and callousness in evidence on this thread and elsewhere is chilling.

Gloating and callousness is a feature of your side. The disaster you speak of could very easily have been averted but you refused to show any consideration or compassion or willingness to do anything other than trample all over women.

I don't know if we can fix this nightmare within our lifetimes at this point, but I will never stop trying.

There was and is an easy fix, you don't want it.

Helleofabore · 26/04/2025 21:46

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/04/2025 21:39

So they did deliberately put us at risk for their own benefit.

I believe so. Either deliberately (remember Chappell's vile comment about acceptable deaths of women) or through ideological ignorance (through believing the misinformation spread by extreme transgender activists).

Even government committees, heavily influenced by those extreme transgender activists, either did not invite feminist groups, or using shaming during the committee meetings to silence them. I remember seeing Kemi reject Caroline Nokes's attempts to distract her. Kemi was superb on that day.

So, even the very government committees meant to uncover the issues were biased from the start until Kemi was appointed in the committee. Maybe before, but not that I remember clearly.

Yes, this has been part of the overall campaign.

I wish to add James Morton to the list of people accountable too. Morton hates their sex.

NotAtMyAge · 26/04/2025 21:49

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/04/2025 21:23

If you could turn the clock back, there were a thousand ways you (by which I mean trans people in general) could have averted this disaster.

You could have spoken up when male rapists were put in female prisons and said, "Not in our name."

You could have made it perfectly clear that you didn't have a problem with female rape survivors having their own rape crisis groups, and that if they were being denied this for your benefit, that was wrong.

You could have stood up for any of the women who lost their livelihoods for saying something you disagreed with and said that although you disagreed with their opinion, you respected their right to hold it.

You could have publicly called out those among your number who made rape and death threats to feminists, said this isn't what you stand for, not marched shoulder to shoulder with them.

You could have agreed that it was wrong for trans women to compete in women's sports, that that isn't a human right at all and has nothing to do with living your lives in dignity.

You could have said, "Thank you for wanting to profile me on International Women's Day, I'm very honoured, but I think it might get people's backs up if the focus is on me for the one day of the year that is devoted to women. We have Pride Month and Trans History Month and Trans Day of Visibility and I'd be absolutely delighted to do something for you during any of those events instead."

You could have said, "Of course we don't count towards the female quota for board members, come on, don't be ridiculous."

You could have refrained from calling people TERFs and bigots and, well, been kind.

Surely if you actually thought we were all in some kind of sisterhood together, you would have done these things.

But you didn't, did you?

Edited

This a thousand times.

Datun · 26/04/2025 21:57

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 19:29

I don't think you quite understand what you are saying here.

I transitioned more than a decade before the Equality Act existed, when trans people did not have legal recognition through the GRA, but were still allowed to use single sex facilities that best suited us.

Even back then at a time of all-consuming culture-wide hostility, the idea of being banned from female facilities was patently ridiculous.

Falkner hasn't just removed my legal recognition with this guidance and rolled us back to before the Equality Act or even the GRA - she has rolled us back to a point so utterly backward; so patently dehumanising and unworkable that it almost beggars belief.

I cried myself to sleep last night - haven't done that for decades - and the tears came right back when I woke up this morning.

Your crusade has allowed Falkner to destroy everything that anchored my world. If I go out in public and use the facilities I have used my entire adult life and much of my teens, I am breaking the law. If I use facilities I am now required to use in the absence of unisex facilities, I automatically breach my right to privacy afforded by the GRA by outing myself. It's unworkable, inhumane and astonishingly irresponsible, not to mention in breach of the ECHR.

Your crusade has destroyed our lives. There are a tiny, tiny number of women in this situation in this country and you have consigned us all to social death. Half my friends are frantically making plans to leave the country; the rest are still in a state of shock. The callousness; the unbelievable cruelty with which our worlds have been torn apart, and the triumphant crowing that has accompanied it, has genuinely shocked me. It is so brazen - so inhuman in its relish at our suffering that it is hard to see it as unintentional. This is a gloating victory lap.

Before you leap in with the accusations of overplaying the impact, please think how you would feel to be told that you must now exclusively use male-only facilities, would be sent to a male prison if you decide to stand your ground and break the law that's just detonated your social existence and right to privacy, and people are cheering and gloating and crying tears of joy, then laughing about how upset it is going to make you.

If I were you, Butters, I would write exactly that, verbatim, for the consultation. Let the authorities know exactly how you feel, and why, and what it will mean.

Relieve your feelings.

DuesToTheDirt · 26/04/2025 21:59

@ButterflyHatched Your crusade has allowed Falkner to destroy everything that anchored my world. If I go out in public and use the facilities I have used my entire adult life and much of my teens, I am breaking the law. If I use facilities I am now required to use in the absence of unisex facilities, I automatically breach my right to privacy afforded by the GRA by outing myself. It's unworkable, inhumane and astonishingly irresponsible, not to mention in breach of the ECHR.

You were breaking the law previously, perhaps unwittingly, perhaps not. You were breaching the right to privacy of the women whose facilities you used. "Inhumane" yes, it is indeed inhumane to ignore women's rights in favour of your own agenda. As for "outing yourself", well obviously I don't know you, but I'd be very surprised if I couldn't tell your sex just by looking at you. If people don't say this to your face that doesn't mean they don't know. "Irresponsible", yes it's very irresponsible for males to insist on using women's facilities, to get organisations on board with this, and so removing the option for women to say no to any man.

Datun · 26/04/2025 22:00

ButterflyHatched · 26/04/2025 20:58

I'm so sorry that the people on this thread are being so heartless about your friend. She sounds like a great person and is lucky to know someone like you. Please don't take these specific responses as representative of the general population - these people have a years-long track record of descending upon and dogpiling anyone who demonstrates the slightest dissent and it gets incredibly vicious at times. They'be been hurling abuse at me for years for daring to speak out - they keep rotating accounts because they keep getting banned but the writing styles and language used is trivially recognisable.

I'm so sorry that this anti-trans reactionary crusade has destroyed your friend's ability to live her life in peace. I wish I could make it ok - turn back the clock and find some way to avert this disaster. I am so shocked and terrified that I honestly don't know what to do, and the gloating and callousness in evidence on this thread and elsewhere is chilling.

Please make sure she doesn't see this thread and the way people here are talking about her - only a complete fool (guillty as charged) would expose herself to this kind of abuse willingly. I would strongly advise warning her off any online space infested with trans-hostile rhetoric, especially right now with 4chan down - I know I have to take regular detox breaks from this board because after a few days it feels like it has started seeping into your soul and the bizarre contortions and doublespeak are exhausting to decipher.

Give your friend a hug from me. I'm so sorry. I don't know if we can fix this nightmare within our lifetimes at this point, but I will never stop trying.

... and that. Call it lived experience

EasternStandard · 26/04/2025 22:02

Datun · 26/04/2025 21:57

If I were you, Butters, I would write exactly that, verbatim, for the consultation. Let the authorities know exactly how you feel, and why, and what it will mean.

Relieve your feelings.

Why do you want this message to go to the consultation?

UrsulasHerbBag · 26/04/2025 22:07

@EasternStandard i think it’s because it’s undiluted self pitying, hyperbolic words describing a fiction wrapped up in a persecution complex with out the vaguest hint of honesty or self reflection. It’s overblown, selfish and has no basis in reality or fact.

teawamutu · 26/04/2025 22:08

EasternStandard · 26/04/2025 22:02

Why do you want this message to go to the consultation?

Because one side will be supplying facts and figures, and one will have to send this kind of dramatic pish because they don't have either.

Datun · 26/04/2025 22:09

UrsulasHerbBag · 26/04/2025 22:07

@EasternStandard i think it’s because it’s undiluted self pitying, hyperbolic words describing a fiction wrapped up in a persecution complex with out the vaguest hint of honesty or self reflection. It’s overblown, selfish and has no basis in reality or fact.

I was going to say you took the words right out of my mouth, but there's no way I would've been that succinct!

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