Girl Guides and the SC judgement

[Timefordrama]

It was the Girl Guides' trans policies which first opened my eyes to the nonsense. I've just checked their website and they are still saying that trans girls can use girls' toilets and changing rooms, and share accommodation with whoever they want. There's no indication that the policies are gong to be reviewed in the light of the SC judgement. Anyone know any more about this?

I don’t know anything, but have wondered the same. In their case, it is not just the toilet and sleeping accommodation issues to consider but the whole admissions policy. I can’t see they can run a “girls only” organisation without (a) keeping all males out and (b) allowing all females, inc transboys, to join. Of course, I and others have thought that for a while, but now the SC agrees with us!

To be fair, they do now include transboys.

Although they do seem a bit reluctant to do so!

It was GG that got me into the Terf Wars too.

I appreciate that some aspects will take some time to change but you'd think updating their website would be the first thing they'd do. They surely can't be planning to flout the law?

Did anyone try to tell them they were misinterpreting and misapplying the law?

Oh yeah, we all did. But we were just a bunch of silly women.

It will probably take organisations a while to make, approve and publish changes to their policies, and those that are reluctant to do so may delay as long as they can get away with unless/until pushed into it. If you/your children are involved with GG, how about writing to them flagging up the ruling and asking for confirmation that their policies will be updated, and when you can expect the new policies to be shared? The more people that write and put pressure on them, the more likely (and sooner) it is to happen. I don't have any link to GG these days (though I was one, many years ago!), but am planning to write to some other orgs that my DCs are involved with, in a similar way, to nudge them to update their policies!

I wonder if it has occurred to them that this is why their membership figures are falling?

I'm also interested. When I asked them about whether men who self identify as women can be volunteers (for camps etc), they said yes, and that parents wouldn't be informed. They surely can't just continue with this after the ruling last week.

The guidance will take time to come out, and be applied. The issue for every provider though will be that they're now wide open to court cases.

Interesting the differences isn't it?

Surrey university get fined £585k or similar - immediately policies come off websites or holding messages are added.

Supreme Court ruling saying what the law has always been and a bunch of people come out saying that they will flout it and angry men pee on statues in parliament square.

The EHRC need to slap a massive fine on NHS Fife over the missing EqIAs revealed via the Peggie case. That would get them moving!?

Have you emailed them through their website?

I haven't, as I have no connection at all with them. I think it would be better coming from parents, and even girl guides themselves.

Anyone know more about this???

I’ve emailed them as a parent of a guide. They will no doubt be consulting with their legal team right now and they seem to have two options.

1. return to being girl only
2. move to become a fully mixed sex org such as scouts

My email asked them to please go for option 1. I suspect though, that they might run a consultation so that the decision is seen to be taken out of their hands.

GG were one of the first orgs that I corresponded with about this many years ago and they were absolutely barking about the whole thing. I remember that they told me that they couldn’t risk assess boys in shared sleeping accommodation as they said it was against the Equality Act. They were extremely captured and took advice on their policies from extreme porn advocate Jane Fae. They’re going to find it very hard to forcibly eject any boys that they have allowed to join. And to be fair, that is a really awful situation to be in. It’s a real shame that they orchestrated it.

Girl Guides needs to be girl guides not Boy Scouts.

I left Guiding over this after many years as a Guider
There was no way I was taking girls to camp when they might have to share a tent with males and I couldn’t even warn their parents

I couldn’t believe it when I was told this

Also objected to the amount of money,from the subscriptions , that they spent on court cases

Reminder of Fae’s involvement

Even if they go for option 2 and become mixed sex (officially), will they still be able to let someone share sleeping accomodation with the opposite sex?

Absolutely this. We all need to be writing to our political representatives, and any relevant Organisations we have connections to, asking them to say how they implementing the SC ruling.

It was GG that first piqued my interest too.

They will I hope be taking advice and then changing approach.

They will need to decide what to do about any transgirls they have misguidedly let in. A sensible approach may be to let them continue to the summer but not return in September, and no away camps in-between.

If they decide to go mixed sex rather than girls only, it will be final confirmation that they would rather throw girls under a bus than place their needs above boys feelings.

I am involved in the scouts and nearly all the girls drop out as they progress through senior school age. When they are asked why they are leaving, it’s because they don’t like being around all the boys.

If guides become another scouts, they will risk this happening. Our Scouts is massively over subscribed with long waiting lists, so I am sure plenty of parents of boys would place them in the local guides if that went mixed sex.

Surely every organisation affected can immediately update their site with a simple holding statement. I would be worried if this was not done as surely it reflects badly on them.

Or they continue on until they finish their current unit (guides/brownies) but arent able to go on camps, must have segregated changing/toilets and arent permitted to train as leaders. ‘Thats a bit less brutal? What will they do about the trans women leaders?

It's not just the problem of boys attending GG, it's also the issue of men identifying as women and becoming Guide Leaders.

Aside from the safeguarding aspect, I can't imagine how much it's messed with so many girls heads for so many years to be confronted with that lie and have to play along.

If GG goes openly mixed sex, will girls still be forced to validate these men?

The Scouts have admitted girls for many years, have they found a solution?