Girl Guides and the SC judgement

[Timefordrama]

It was the Girl Guides' trans policies which first opened my eyes to the nonsense. I've just checked their website and they are still saying that trans girls can use girls' toilets and changing rooms, and share accommodation with whoever they want. There's no indication that the policies are gong to be reviewed in the light of the SC judgement. Anyone know any more about this?

I think being allowed to continue until end of current unit is too long. That could be ?4? years that the whole troop is impacted.

Any adult leaders who should be female but aren't should again be removed at the end of the summer term. Allows for a smoother transition but means September can start with a clean slate.

This was my peak moment too and I mentioned it to a Tory minister (as was) and one of their staff a few years ago. I have always hoped that helped in a tiny way with the conversations around this. I was also keen to see GG’s response to the ruling, shame there is so far not even a holding statement.

Scouts will also need to review their policies I reckon. From memory I think they may not be QUITE as extreme/gaslighty as the Guides' ones, but I'm sure they also have some dodgy bits, and they've certainly had male leaders who "identify" as women (one of whom has been in both Scouts and Guides!).
One difference I think is that they don't seem to have been quite as determined to impose GI on all their units/leaders and to silence concerns as the Guides. So while some units have lapped up all the nonsensical pronoun games etc from HQ, been involved with Pride, etc (& there are a few VERY dodgy/captured troops I've read about), many/most? have ignored it and continued to follow sensible safeguarding practices and run essentially as they used to before, without getting any bother. The worry is what is being allowed to happen in those other units, where the leaders are themselves genderists or trans-identified. Presumably they will NOT necessarily be applying the same principles, and I do worry about their safeguarding and the messages they're giving the kids...

I also found this afterwards, saying they have improved their current policies a lot vs the previous version, though still not ideal: https://www.transgendertrend.com/scout-association-new-transgender-guidance-big-step-forward/

As a girlguiding leader, please email HQ about this and not your daughters unit leaders. HQ don't listen to us and it will be far better coming from parents directly.

HQ are not fast at updating any policy so I can't imagine it will be done soon. There's also the adding complication of the CEO having resigned and recruitment for a new one underway, and I imagine whoever is acting as interim has not welcomed having this rugby pass sent their way.

Back when scouts went mixed sex, girlguiding overwhelming voted to stay single sex for the young members. I hope this ruling doesn't lead to us becoming a mixed sex org like the scouts as I believe it to be vitally important for girls to have their own spaces and in theory, this ruling should make it easier (I think? Not being an expert!)

Scouts will also need to consider their policies as well. Although they are mixed sex, the website does say that trans scouts can use the toilets / showers they feel most comfortable with (whilst also encouraging third and gender neutral spaces). I'm sure they will be grappling with this too.

Just to address some misconceptions though, male volunteers have long been permitted in girlguiding. We've had some great single dads volunteer with us over the years. But they cannot make the promise (so they can only be unit helpers rather than "leaders") and are not members of the organisation - they have a separate name (which escapes me right now). Obviously separate toilet / shower / bedroom provision has to be made for them on camp / overnights.

I just contacted them. I so want them to get over this madness so my daughters can join.

They seem to be holding fast for now.

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1915689045356654904?t=179DMWzUaA5GgvQ-YdSpMw&s=19

A whistleblower from @Girlguiding has been in touch.

Volunteers have been instructed that, irrespective of the Supreme Court judgement, boys who identify as girls can use female camp rooms and toilets. Worse still, parents must not be told.

This is a safeguarding nightmare.

Surely this policy is illegal unless they make public they are mixed sex? Always has been but ignorance of the law is no defence and they can hardly claim they have missed the very public clarification of the law!

I think every parent of a rainbow, brownie or guide needs to email them and ask whether they are providing single sex spaces.

I think their feet need to be held to the fire.

They are in the process of fining and potentially prosecuting nhs fife, nhs scotland and Neil gray for none of them having EqIAs and single sex spaces, oh yeh and the new (same as the old mostly unwritten) guidance which was already illegal under the previous reading of the law and is now doubly so.
Unfortunately it takes time, Neil gray (Scottish health minister) was called in for a formal meeting about all of the above this week we are now awaiting the outcome. Hopefully he will piss about like usual and end up in crt over it as that will crystallise the issues in the minds of all ministers and businesses owners

There's definitely been no blanket email to volunteers and there's nothing on any of the leader unofficial groups. Not saying this isn't true - the leader could have been emailed directly i suppose in response to a question to HQ, but there was nothing about it in the weekly volunteer update email last night.

Thanks - I knew there was a meeting - how/when will there be a result announced?

Interesting!
Shirley Ann Somerville mentioned in her speech in Scot parliament that a meeting was taking place yesterday with EHRC but she kept putting it in the context of starting to get clarification on practical applications of the law.
She never mentioned it was anything to do with the NHS Fife case!

I emailed them last week to request their position, so far no reply.

The meeting was arranged before the ruling but after the non answers to both the NHS Fife letters (including the 1 they claim that they didn't get) and the ones to nhs scotland and Neil gray. This has all come about because of the sp case and nothing to do with getting guidance from the EHRC about the SC ruling, though it does put nhs fife and nhs scotland in a much worse position 🤭
Shirley-ann summerville is a true believer and has lots of form for twisting facts and lying by ommission.

OMG! I listened to her whole address to parliament and the questions afterwards and I’m pretty sure I didn’t hear mention of this meeting being related to the NHS Fife shitshow case!

Heads off to listen again…..

Could those of you who are Guide Leaders simply say that they are applying the law? Then let the transgender brigade try to take you to court.

As for the worse still parents must not be told - what law do they think that is covered under?

@Conxis she didn't but it was reported on in the local press weeks back that there was a meeting due the 1st week back from Easter break and what it's about, Somerville as usual is trying to pretend it's just about the ruling rather than all the illegal guidance that has been coming out of the NHS and Scottish government, oh yeh and failed to mention that it's a formal wtf are you doing meeting that is the next step in a fine/prosecution process after the formal letter stage. As I said before she lies by omission and twist facts to fit her narrative

Well the guidance put out today by EHRC is pretty clear - women-only organisations must not admit transwomen.

Removing individual members is very emotive and a hard thing for local leaders and the organisation to have to do.
However, the board of trustees couldn't move fast enough to boot out all the individual members of British Girlguiding Overseas with barely a few months notice, when someone told them the trustees there might be legal risk of non-compliance with local laws. Funny how the EA2010 apparently hits different...

It was GG that got me into this too. Not in any personal way, as my children are grown and we were never in the Guides, but the entire safeguarding failure was so in-yer-face. To us, at least, if not GG HQ.

I'm sick of all this 'we're considering it'. No. It's the effing law and you follow it. No ifs, no buts.

We're going to need some well publicised prosecutions.

Yes, Guiding made me aware of this too. Ex-Guider...

As an ex-guider this is what made me aware of the issues too.

It was when transwoman Jane Fae claimed to have advised the Girl Guides about inclusion / how to remove single sex spaces etc that I was alerted. Jane is an enthusiast for extreme porn - especially involving representations of real women being dismembered and abused. Jane's claims showcased just how many unsuitable adults were being allowed to influence safeguarding children - especially where girls were involved.

They have also removed their transgender policy from their website.